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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Self destructive graphics arms race is wiping out game devs.

 

Have games become to demanding, too expensive to make?

Yes, and it is a self-des... 182 69.73%
 
No, give me 4K even if it bankrupts them. 79 30.27%
 
Total:261
caffeinade said:
Don't worry, as A.I. improves we should see the rise of A.I. artists.
A.I. artists will in time lower the demand for "real" artists and therefore reduce development costs.

We can only hope.

 

So, a game designed by machines for humans to play. Do you think they will let us win? I'm having Matrix flashbacks.

   

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This isn't a very good argument, to be honest.

The OP is taking all closures and using them to "prove" that the reason he gives is the cause. That's disingenuous. What about all the other reasons that cause businesses to close every single day around the globe? How many of those developers closed because of bad management? Crytek's rapid expansion without the resources to back it up comes to mind. How many of those developers closed because they did not deliver a quality product? Or they failed to deliver a product that filled a demand?

I bet we can look at a good many of those developers and the reason for closure will be something other than "graphics arms race."

On the other end of the spectrum, there are developers who had great success producing games that did not have big budgets or amazing "graphics". They are part of the equation, as well, and cannot be left out.

The truth is, like it or not, game development is a high risk, high reward industry. The success of a developer often depends entirely on the success of an individual game. Very few can survive a complete failure, much less a string of failures.

Many other industries have high failure rates, as well. My family owned a restaurant, which is a very tough industry to survive in. I sold my own business at its peak but the person I sold to was terrible at business management and it died within two years.

It's not easy to find success in business. In a crowded market, most entries are going to fail. That's just reality.

If anyone wants to make a solid argument, I suggest they build it with a better foundation.



I don't feel too many people are demanding graphics anymore. At least, not anyone who plays console. It's reached a point where is pleasing to the eye, and people who want more can find comfort on PC.

Devs killing themselves on AAA graphics have no one to blame but themselves. Just look at Darkest Dungeon: there's no reason to bang your head on the graphic wall to get good sales and reviews. Leave high end graphics to the high profile games, like first party Sony and MS, or regular record breakers like Call of Duty.



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Captain_Yuri said:

Well, what I'd argue is that its not necessarily HD development and graphics that killed a lot of the studios but the coding necessary to support all the different architectures we had last gen.

PC - x86
360 - PowerPC
Ps3 - Cell
wii - 2 Gamecubs with motion controls

The Cell was also PowerPC.
Wii was also PowerPC.
Gamecube also PowerPC.

Captain_Yuri said:

Now of course, you have stuff like OpenGL/Direct X and Operating systems and etc that are still different but compared to the last gen, if a dev wants to make a game for even 3 of the platforms, it should be vastly simpler. Now I am not saying HD didn't have any affect, I am saying that it was the architectures along with new graphics technologies that really put the strain on devs which ultimatly lead to publishers closing down studios.

Last gen consoles had Direct X and OpenGL or a derivative-of as high-level API's.

HD or "High Definition" is basically a term to reference 1280x720 resolution or 720P.
Resolution itself doesn't actually increase development costs or time at all, it is the assets, motion and sound capture which costs time and money... Otherwise, back in 1995 when Carmack was building and playing Quake on a 1080P CRT monitor, it would have cost the same amount as a game today in 2016 built at the same resolution. But it doesn't.
People forget that the PC has had 1080P monitors and thus games whilst consoles were only thinking about 3D graphics at 240P.



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Pemalite said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Well, what I'd argue is that its not necessarily HD development and graphics that killed a lot of the studios but the coding necessary to support all the different architectures we had last gen.

PC - x86
360 - PowerPC
Ps3 - Cell
wii - 2 Gamecubs with motion controls

The Cell was also PowerPC.
Wii was also PowerPC.
Gamecube also PowerPC.

Captain_Yuri said:

Now of course, you have stuff like OpenGL/Direct X and Operating systems and etc that are still different but compared to the last gen, if a dev wants to make a game for even 3 of the platforms, it should be vastly simpler. Now I am not saying HD didn't have any affect, I am saying that it was the architectures along with new graphics technologies that really put the strain on devs which ultimatly lead to publishers closing down studios.

Last gen consoles had Direct X and OpenGL or a derivative-of as high-level API's.

HD or "High Definition" is basically a term to reference 1280x720 resolution or 720P.
Resolution itself doesn't actually increase development costs or time at all, it is the assets, motion and sound capture which costs time and money... Otherwise, back in 1995 when Carmack was building and playing Quake on a 1080P CRT monitor, it would have cost the same amount as a game today in 2016 built at the same resolution. But it doesn't.
People forget that the PC has had 1080P monitors and thus games whilst consoles were only thinking about 3D graphics at 240P.

Yes but the cell was much harder to develop for than the 360 was according to devs so I doubt it was just a standard PowerPC

The reason I said the wii was 2 gamecubes with motion controls was so show the difference in power between ps3/360 vs the wii

Yes I am aware last gen had dx/openGL but that comment is in relation to still having those kinds of differneces. And most people take HD development as 7th generation development and not literal HD resolution hence why the follow up sentence mentions "new graphics technologies"



                  

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Maybe? Dunno but I'm willing to bet those prettier graphics cost money and time...

I'd much rather those resources be put towards refining game mechanics than refining the visuals. If developers want to make their game look nice, they should aim for great art style rather than chasing polygons.



Am I missing something here? The EA exec claims that new AAA games require more people and thus bigger budgets, so there are less AAA games being developed compared to before. Nowhere did I see anyone mentioning studios going bancrupt due to developing AAA games :/



I wouldn't worry much about it, it's similar what happened with Hollywood in the early days, only few majors were left in the end, then there was renaissance around 70s, then it turned to crap that it is now, but we have great TV shows to more then make up for it.

Same thing is happening with gaming industry, AA will come back to give us great "shows".



Ka-pi96 said:
SonytendoAmiibo said:

 

The link you posted is all developers. We are talking about AAA big developers. The first link in the OP is info from a knowledgeable EA executive. He knows way more about it than the average person does. If you have a problem with the 80% number feel free to contact him. I am just the messenger and thought this news was worth discussion. I have provided the link to that info only. Have a nice day.

An EA exec also recently called the PS4, Xbox One & Wii U 4th gen consoles. So just because they`re an EA exec definitely doesn`t mean they are either knowledgeable or know more than the average person

 

Well, EA is EA and I can't argue there. But the fact remains that many AAA studios are going down. It seems that every month we see news, such as Crytek shutting down five studios recently. No one can say it's not happening. As far as graphics causing the increase in development costs, even Nintendo said that they vastly underestimated the extra work involved in making HD games.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

The Hollywood style model, where there's really only 4 or 5 major movie studios is probably where the *console* gaming industry is headed.

However it's counter-balanced by indie productions, just like in the film industry, nowadays you just need a decent DSLR and some lights and you can make a movie. Today you can make a video game in your garage with a couple of friends and even get crowd-sourced funding for it.