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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17

I don't get the hate for Reigns. He's not a bad wrestler.

I DO get that they hate the idea that Reigns was hand picked, but that's not exactly his fault.



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Alara317 said:
I don't get the hate for Reigns. He's not a bad wrestler.

I DO get that they hate the idea that Reigns was hand picked, but that's not exactly his fault.

To be honest, it comes to how he was pushed.  Spent half the year in the hospital wins slammy for wrestler of the year.  Doesn't help that at best he's only competent in the ring.  He's still pretty bad on the mic to this day (Last week's promo wasn't really any good).  Vince also screwed himself over when he managed to train the fans to hate him/the company.  If they just did a slow burn for Reigns and let him get over organically they wouldn't be in this mess.  Doesn't help Vince keeps trying every year to get him over at mania.  So it boils down to Vince vs the fans.  With the ratings going down year on year, half empty arenas for T.V. shows (Not even house shows), you have an issue with Vince.  If they let Reigns be a silent killer, he'd be over.  



Alara317 said:
I don't get the hate for Reigns. He's not a bad wrestler.

I DO get that they hate the idea that Reigns was hand picked, but that's not exactly his fault.

I don't think most people hate him.  He's actually very good at the "car crash" type matches the WWE likes in the main event.  You give him some tables/barricades to break and he can be quite entertaining.  It's only when he has had to drop down to the midcard and actually wrestle inside the ring that his limitations come into play.  He's too big to be dominated by a heel and his in-ring offense is too limited for him to hold control for long.  He's a better stuntman than a wrestler but that has its place, too.  Look at how much people love Shane and he generally sucks unless he's falling off something. 

Well, that, and his relative lack of charisma and promo ability.  He might not be someone people automatically hate but he really isn't someone that wins people over when he opens his mouth, either.

Rather than hate, I think most just really resent what he represents.  We're really not that far removed from the godawful "Super Cena" era, where the WWE cannibalized the entire roster to make one man look like a superhero.  Roman was set firmly on the same path while he was still green.  He didn't even get a chance to win people over (or fail trying).  It was just, "here is THE GUY, now shut up and cheer!"

Whenever his music hits, it's a fresh reminder that the WWE sometimes doesn't give a rat's ass what the fans want or don't want.  It's like going to McDonald's with a craving for a cheeseburger only to have them hand you a McRib with extra mayonnaise.  



I don't think Reigns is bad on the mic. He's just not as good as the top guys and his style is way different...but in a good way. I like him. I think they could build a great story line with him using maybe his family...by breaking him down to the core and forcing a more vocal and aggressive side of his character.

Cena needs to turn heel and he needs to do it soon. If he waits too long people might not give a damn about him at that point and also ...he needs enough room to go back to face after he turns heel to keep his rep.

I've been watching interviews and podcast from the veterans for the past 10 years or so and look at wrestling through a business standpoint. It took a while but I can now appreciate the way Vince operates his organization...looking at it as an adult.



Insert Coin. Press START. You Died. Continue?

He had a more diverse moveset in OVW than he does now. He can actually go. He's just being held back by top brass. He'll never be Shawn Michaels or Brian Danielson but they need to let him experiment with his moveset and character more. I actually don't mind his mic promos of late. Sufferin succatash was only a year ago. He's atleast progressing.

He isn't the top guy we've chosen where as Cena at least was. We just didn't expect him to turn into a superhero and dominate the rest of the locker room for the next decade.



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ironmanDX said:
He had a more diverse moveset in OVW than he does now. He can actually go. He's just being held back by top brass. He'll never be Shawn Michaels or Brian Danielson but they need to let him experiment with his moveset and character more. I actually don't mind his mic promos of late. Sufferin succatash was only a year ago. He's atleast progressing.

He isn't the top guy we've chosen where as Cena at least was. We just didn't expect him to turn into a superhero and dominate the rest of the locker room for the next decade.

I never liked Cena. Ever. It has nothing to do with the fad of hating him..I just never understood his appeal. He cones off corny and disingenuous to me. Every now and then he'll say something I can appreciate but it's so seldom that I couldn't care less. 

And I know that he's gotten praise from the veterans...Austin...Taker( I think The Rock...not sure)...and I remember thinking how he reminded me of Hogan...my favorite wrestler of all time...but still...I can't get behind him. 

He's good for business and that's what matters at the end of the day.



Insert Coin. Press START. You Died. Continue?

pokoko said:
Alara317 said:
I don't get the hate for Reigns. He's not a bad wrestler.

I DO get that they hate the idea that Reigns was hand picked, but that's not exactly his fault.

I don't think most people hate him.  He's actually very good at the "car crash" type matches the WWE likes in the main event.  You give him some tables/barricades to break and he can be quite entertaining.  It's only when he has had to drop down to the midcard and actually wrestle inside the ring that his limitations come into play.  He's too big to be dominated by a heel and his in-ring offense is too limited for him to hold control for long.  He's a better stuntman than a wrestler but that has its place, too.  Look at how much people love Shane and he generally sucks unless he's falling off something. 

Well, that, and his relative lack of charisma and promo ability.  He might not be someone people automatically hate but he really isn't someone that wins people over when he opens his mouth, either.

Rather than hate, I think most just really resent what he represents.  We're really not that far removed from the godawful "Super Cena" era, where the WWE cannibalized the entire roster to make one man look like a superhero.  Roman was set firmly on the same path while he was still green.  He didn't even get a chance to win people over (or fail trying).  It was just, "here is THE GUY, now shut up and cheer!"

Whenever his music hits, it's a fresh reminder that the WWE sometimes doesn't give a rat's ass what the fans want or don't want.  It's like going to McDonald's with a craving for a cheeseburger only to have them hand you a McRib with extra mayonnaise.  

He's also booked the opposite of how fans actually view him. They view him as Vince's puppet yet on screen they always portray Vince and the Authority as being against him. I think that's a mistake in the writing.



SuperRetroTurbo said:
I don't think Reigns is bad on the mic. He's just not as good as the top guys and his style is way different...but in a good way. I like him. I think they could build a great story line with him using maybe his family...by breaking him down to the core and forcing a more vocal and aggressive side of his character.

Cena needs to turn heel and he needs to do it soon. If he waits too long people might not give a damn about him at that point and also ...he needs enough room to go back to face after he turns heel to keep his rep.

I've been watching interviews and podcast from the veterans for the past 10 years or so and look at wrestling through a business standpoint. It took a while but I can now appreciate the way Vince operates his organization...looking at it as an adult.

A John Cena heel turn would be too little to late (just like a matchup against The Undertaker would be). Back in 2012-2013 would have been the best time since fans were asking for it at the time.

Also an update on the Fabulous Moolah situation. Snickers pressured WWE to change it and they did.



HomokHarcos said:
SuperRetroTurbo said:
I don't think Reigns is bad on the mic. He's just not as good as the top guys and his style is way different...but in a good way. I like him. I think they could build a great story line with him using maybe his family...by breaking him down to the core and forcing a more vocal and aggressive side of his character.

Cena needs to turn heel and he needs to do it soon. If he waits too long people might not give a damn about him at that point and also ...he needs enough room to go back to face after he turns heel to keep his rep.

I've been watching interviews and podcast from the veterans for the past 10 years or so and look at wrestling through a business standpoint. It took a while but I can now appreciate the way Vince operates his organization...looking at it as an adult.

A John Cena heel turn would be too little to late (just like a matchup against The Undertaker would be). Back in 2012-2013 would have been the best time since fans were asking for it at the time.

Also an update on the Fabulous Moolah situation. Snickers pressured WWE to change it and they did.

That's exactly what I mean. People might not even care anymore. Personally...the idea is still interesting. I speak for the generation that grew up with Hulk and Macho...that group of fans ...the majority of...that t WWE has lost. 

He needs to pass the torch at some point. I can't name one guy on the roster now... capable of carrying that business. There has to be a guy. Cena vs AJ? Maybe but let's be honest. Reigns is most likely to take over. Stroman is a work in progress. They're pushing his character a little too hard if you ask me. He's not the guy. Anyway... I'm basically saying...there still is some intrigue to a Cena heel turn...just not to as many people as it should have been.



Insert Coin. Press START. You Died. Continue?

@HomokHarcos - you nailed it with Reigns. He would fit better being kind of like 1998 Taker, Foley, or Corporate Rock.

On Cena - I am not familiar with his current level of importance, but he had a slow build up and basically the moment he main events Wrestlemania (the one with the Mafia theme) he started to get booed. Reigns, from what I understand, DID build himself up to be THE guy while with the Shield, but when WWE moved him into Cena’s slot, so to went the crowd booes. I agree that he should go heel, have him be a Paul Heyman guy, make him cause Brock to lose, and then beat the crap out of Reigns at the end of the match.

Rousey - It’s a little surprising that WWE fans aren’t booing her knowing their trained values (as someone before mentioned) but she’s essentially the #2 biggest celebrity in pro-wrestling currently - #1 is whenever the Rock comes back for a visit. I have heard some chatter that she might have some heat due to her not being up to speed on all the etiquette, but the reality of the situation is that anyone who has a program with her is going to be elevated in the public eye... except I am not so sure about the whole Stephanie angle, it feels a little forced; a jealous Charlotte angle where she pushes the angle that she feels Rousey doesn’t deserve her spot would have made infinitely more sense - that is EASY conflict.

Moolah - the information and rumours have been around since before her death. Sweet Georgia Brown, a student of hers back in the 50s, broke the first story about the pimping allegations in 2006; but the whole story of her skimming the profits goes back A LOT earlier - and Moolah didn’t exactly hide it so much as flaunt it; it was a part of her character: her name is “Moolah” which is old-timey American slang for money. People were afraid to speak against her because of the power she had from 1960 until the early 80s. She also controlled the title, and was corrupt about it, always putting it on herself. The first real publically visible display of her corruption was the Wendi Richter screw job in November 1985 - which played out VERY similar to the Bret Hart job (although there’s speculation from Steve Austin, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, the Outlaws, and others that this was a work - and Vince Mcmahon had said some things in the past indicating that it might have been a work; I’m not saying it is! But the Richter thing was almost certainly not a work). Anyway, it was a bad idea to name it that, and I think it’s possible that Steph and Vince didn’t see her past as being relevant to the present, or perhaps were oblibivious to the weight of it given she was like the grandmother of the locker room - and they learned the hard way of their error.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.