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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Microsoft: We Think The Future Is Without Console Generations

Well Xbox already is mini PC..



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Shadow1980 said:

Change is objective. Progress is subjective. Change ≠ progress. How do you define "progress"? I have a feeling we have two different ideas here.

Oh, for Pete's S-

WHO. CARES?

Is "subjectivity" the new "that's your opinion" now? Who cares if progress is subjective? That literally changes nothing about what I said. Being able to play new games on old hardware and upgrade when you want instead of the artificial cut offs we have now is progress. Having every new piece of hardware be backwards and forwards compatable is progress. There is literally no downside to a system like this. It is, by the numbers, superior to what was there before in literally every way. It isn't even like digital only where that would at least mess with collectors. This literally harms no party while adding flexibility were it was once technologically impractical to do so.

Bringing up that progress is subjective in such a dry numbers case as this is a careless abuse of the leniency of the word. Sure, calling forward compatibility progress is "subjective." Calling the cotton gin progress is "subjective." Calling the assembly line progress is "subjective." Calling the internet progress is "subjective." Calling the smart phone progress is "subjective." Everything is "subjective." Everything is "just an opinion." We live in an era where everyone is a delicate little flower and every idea has to be equal and no idea is wrong because hey, technically that's not how opinions work!

Well guess what? Having an opinion in-and-of itself doesn't make it valid, or intelligent, or hold weight. Stop trying to use subjectivity as some catch-all argumentative "get out of jail free" card so that you don't have to validate your arguments. If you think that your "idea" is more valid than mine, stop hiding behind the "it's just your opinion, bro" defense mechanism and actually support it. "That's subjective" isn't a valid response to anything. It's just using redundancy to meekly deflect attention away from the point of view being contested. That's all it ever will be. An underhanded way out. But not today.

Stop muddying the discussion with ubiquitously obvious semantics. If you have something to argue, argue it. If you think your opinion is more valid than mine, show me up by out-supporting me. If you don't, don't respond. Or be dignified by waving a white flag. Or do literally anything more classy than "that's your opinion"-ing me.



Chazore said:
KBG29 said:

I don't want to have 3 or 4 different OS's for my computing needs.  As a consumer I want all of my tech to talk,  and I want all of my purchased software to work whether I am using a stationary home device,  a large portable,  a phone,  or vr/AR. 

 

Microsoft is already heading in this direction with UWA,  and I think it is the greatest thing in the world. It is absolutely illogical to have an Xbox,  an Android,  a Mac,  and a Sony TV.  People that fracture the market like this are just making life harder for themselves and everyone else.  

 

If Apple fans buy only apple devices and Sony fans Sony device and so on and so forth,  then that will make the market so much stronger. Furthermore having the same tech in your Home Computer,  You Laptop/Tablet,  your Phone,  and your VR/AR devices makes development a dream,  and results in much higher quality software. 

 

This is why we need a Playstation and Xbox line of phones and laptop/tablets.  We need cohesive ecosystems,  and we need options that are built around make world class gaming and entertainment experiences. 

YOu don't need to have to use different OS's, you can just use MS windows, MS phone, MS tablets, MS console etc. MS have a phone that will plug into a dock and work with a desktop screen and keyboard if that's what you're after.

Personally I don't really see anything amazing in a limited idea of trying to be jack of all trades, master of none, especially with a one corp, one product ideal that some have. I'm a consumer who prefers buying different products from different companies that serve different purposes and ones that do it well rather than wanting everything to do everything under a single company. Market fracture is always going to be a thing, it's been this way for centuries for as long as there has been options and competition, especially with technology.

Apple fans have bought their Apple products for years, nothing has changed that userbase from buying what that company sells.

High quality software is subjective though, we've seen MS being on and fof with Windows throughout the years, same with Apple in both the tablet/phone area and the software stores they've provided over the eyars and sofwatre allowed onto their stores hasn't produced stellar quality everywhere with no bad quality games/software in sight.

We don't really need console style PC's and tablets, that's what you want based on your very niche preference of how you do your bills and such from your Vita/PS3 which is as niche as you can get since everyone else in the average world uses their laptop/desktops to handle their documents, emails, bills etc. Phones and tablets can do some tasks but not every task known to man and neither are the consoels, there is a reason why a PC designs everything else, it's the base for everything nad nothing much has changed it's place and it's main use. You aren't going to get a Sony tablet controlling dams or power planets, otherwise we'd be there right now if we shared such a small and odd dream.

There are definitely die-hards, but Apple is really struggling of late. Macs have been really stagnant, and Mac Pro looks like it might be at EOL status. They canned their Thunderbolt display with no replacement (a product that was already vastly obsolete and should have been updated at least two years ago). 

iPhone sales have slipped a lot, tablet sales are bad for everyone (this is a by-product of phones not being standard mediocre performance + 4" screens when iPad launched, but 5"+ and fast, so tablets are largely redundant. 

The biggest failure I've seen from them is the iPad pro. It's laughable to any real extent, and they're trying to market it as a replacement to a real computer (such as Macbook / Surface / regular laptop / etc). iOS is fine for phones, but it is absolutely useless in terms of being a work device, where the vast majority of computer sales are allocated annually. Initial sales were strong, but this is always the case with Apple stuff, they have their core die-hards of course, but beyond that this device is insanely expensive and virtually useless to the majority of people (assuming they already have a smartphone and some functional computer). It's such a poorly priced/marketed product that it risks damaging their relationships with some of those die-hards. 

I remember an age where if you went to any Apple-centric web site, all you ever saw was universal, unending praise for everything Apple. Now, you see a lot of frustration and even anger there, particularly in respect to their computer options. Tim Cook is either clueless or doesn't care. The biggest money maker for Apple is iPhone of course, but that's a dangerous thing to try to rely on forever. Smartphones are rapidly approaching the 'pragmatic/price concious' phase because even cheap phones today are quite good, and more than enough for the vast majority of users. Nothing lasts forever, we won't see people slapping down $800 for Galaxy S15s and iPhone 14s. Whatever IS available in ten years from now will be basically disposable and ludicrously powerful even at the $49 price point. I have a $59 phone for work that has quad-core, decent GPU, 2GB ram, 16GB storage, 720p IPS 5" Display, and Marshmallow. It runs circles around my personal iPhone 5. And I'll likely never buy another iPhone because it's just horrendous value for money. 

I also HATE the idea of walled garden ecosystems. It's aggravating as shit to someone like myself. I do absolutely applaud Microsoft for expanding Xbox and PC cross-platform franchising/marketing/UWA/etc. That's a great step that makes things better for consumers who choose their products. But at the same time, you can still run Steam on PC, Origin, whatever. If they close that off, then that's more company-specific BS that I can't stand. Even competing standards can be a bitch. Remember HD-DVD vs Bluray? Sucked for anyone who bought HD-DVD, and even if HD-DVD had survived to this day, that would still be a crap situation because then stores/RedBox/etc would have to stock a more diluted selection of SKUs, making it harder to find what you want, and more troublesome for them to provide. 

In my dream world, companies would compete at the content level and at the hardware quality level, but all that content could be accessed/utiliized anywhere. Zero exclusivity anywhere, so the best content could always reach the largest possible audience, and niche titles wouldn't be hamstrung by potentially being on a platform that few people have access to. 



So people would rather pay $400 every three years for upgraded consoles? Buying a PC GPU is cheaper and more powerful than that, and can last longer.



kowenicki said:
spemanig said:

Oh, for Pete's S-

WHO. CARES?

Is "subjectivity" the new "that's your opinion" now? Who cares if progress is subjective? That literally changes nothing about what I said. Being able to play new games on old hardware and upgrade when you want instead of the artificial cut offs we have now is progress. Having every new piece of hardware be backwards and forwards compatable is progress. There is literally no downside to a system like this. It is, by the numbers, superior to what was there before in literally every way. It isn't even like digital only where that would at least mess with collectors. This literally harms no party while adding flexibility were it was once technologically impractical to do so.

Bringing up that progress is subjective in such a dry numbers case as this is a careless abuse of the leniency of the word. Sure, calling forward compatibility progress is "subjective." Calling the cotton gin progress is "subjective." Calling the assembly line progress is "subjective." Calling the internet progress is "subjective." Calling the smart phone progress is "subjective." Everything is "subjective." Everything is "just an opinion." We live in an era where everyone is a delicate little flower and every idea has to be equal and no idea is wrong because hey, technically that's not how opinions work!

Well guess what? Having an opinion in-and-of itself doesn't make it valid, or intelligent, or hold weight. Stop trying to use subjectivity as some catch-all argumentative "get out of jail free" card so that you don't have to validate your arguments. If you think that your "idea" is more valid than mine, stop hiding behind the "it's just your opinion, bro" defense mechanism and actually support it. "That's subjective" isn't a valid response to anything. It's just using redundancy to meekly deflect attention away from the point of view being contested. That's all it ever will be. An underhanded way out. But not today.

Stop muddying the discussion with ubiquitously obvious semantics. If you have something to argue, argue it. If you think your opinion is more valid than mine, show me up by out-supporting me. If you don't, don't respond. Or be dignified by waving a white flag. Or do literally anything more classy than "that's your opinion"-ing me.

what a fantastic post. Bravo.

OT. Why are people (deliberately?) misinterpreting what has been said here? It's like some people have a fixed agenda or bias or something? Surely not...

It's easier to read just the headline and post according to your usual attitude than to actually read what has been said, of course.



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spemanig said:
Turkish said:
Microsoft doesn't get to decide that though. The PS5 is gonna come out in a few years time no matter what MS thinks or does.

Shuhei Yoshida has directly contradicted your assertion that there will definitely be a PS5.

Generations are dead, kiddos.

Since you're the guy who said the NX will be digital only I don't think many people are going to take your predictions seriously anymore.



Marcusius said:
AlfredoTurkey said:
The day console gaming starts using a 2-3 year cycle is the day I'm done. Gaming is a luxury. Owning a game console is not like owning a smartphone. One is a life companion and the other is a pastime/hobby. If they think people are going to throw away 400 dollars on a console every 2 years, they're headed for end of the industry.

The way i see people buying unfinsi*cough* dlc games. They will buy a new console every 2-3 year's. Look how peoples went nuts and they repleaced  their xbox one for a xbox one s

I haven't seen any hard numbers that show Xbox One members buying new Xbox One S consoles in droves. 



There will be a Playstation 5 as well though... if MS decide not to compete thats on them.



JRPGfan said:
There will be a Playstation 5 as well though... if MS decide not to compete thats on them.

Nobody is saying there won't be a PS5.



Nautilus said:
lionpetercarmoo said:

No not really.

Its going to be a new hardware, probably wont be capable of playing Wii U games, will be more powerful and will have a new concept.So why its not a new generation?Please enlighten me.

LOL "more powerful" I'm certain it will be less powerful than both PS4 and Xbox One. And wow a handheld connecting  to the TV like thats never been done before.