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Forums - General Discussion - Is becoming a vegetarian/vegan worth it?

HoloDust said:

Here's a thought - best thing any human can do for enviroment when it comes to diet is to eat crappy food, die as young as possible and preferably have no offspring - enviroment would benefit so much if population was reduced to 1 billion max.

/sarcasm...or not.

Yes and no.  It depends on what someone can *do* with their life.  I've chosen to have no offspring, and I've chosen to do things with my life that will hopefully make a difference.  I volunteer, I donate to charity, I own a bicycle shop and do what I can there to get people excited about cycling for recreation/transportation, and I help spread eco-positive messages to people who indicate they're receptive to hearing them which hopefully is helping me "pay it forward" by helping people make changes in their own lives that reduce their environmental footprint.  And now I've also converted to an entirely plant-based diet which statistically is going to reduce my burden on the environment and on the medical system.  I believe it's possible for a person to have a net positive impact on the world, if they choose to embrace the opportunities out there.



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scrapking said: 

I'm vegan 

What really? It's a good thing you told us again or we might have forgot



You know what, I'm an omnivore, but I actually like tofu personally.



VGPolyglot said:
You know what, I'm an omnivore, but I actually like tofu personally.

But do you get it delivered in the back of a panda trueno? 



NATO said:
VGPolyglot said:
You know what, I'm an omnivore, but I actually like tofu personally.

But do you get it delivered in the pack of a panda trueno? 

I have no idea what that is.



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VGPolyglot said:
NATO said:

But do you get it delivered in the pack of a panda trueno? 

I have no idea what that is.

Takumi is disappointed in you 



Captain_Yuri said:
NATO said:

Just do the world a favor, if you go vegan, don't spend the rest of your life telling anyone and everyone about it, nobody cares

So true. I have a friend that is a vegan and after he switched, he was like guys, there is soo much delicious food that vegan's can eat that it's not even funny. You guys are really missing out! Seriously!

And I am always like... Did you know that I can not only eat the shit you are eating but also this juicy steak? At the same time? Zomg right?

Seriously, Vegans are so damn annoying that it's not even funny.

This is an interesting element of the discussion.  You realize that if someone is vegan and never tells you, that you probably won't realize they're vegan?  People who say all vegans are annoying seem to fail to realize that it's a self-reinforcing argument.  I know a guy who's been vegan for years, and I've been vegan for about 1.5 years, and he and I only discovered a few weeks ago that each other is vegan!  Neither he, nor I, go around telling everyone we're vegan, therefore we didn't know the other was vegan despite us both being vegan for years!

That said I get it.  Most people are lied to about animal agriculture from birth.  We're told that eating animal products is necessary.  It's definitely not necessary, and in fact the preponderance of evidence suggests it's not even ideal to do so (the most plant-based populations around the world are the healthiest, the longest living, and the most vibrant in old age).  So when someone discovers that they've been lied to their whole lives, there's often a strong desire to share that fact with others who have also been lied to and probably don't realize it.

Is it any different than console gamers being excited about their system of choice?  I was in a store years ago trying to buy an Xbox One, and a staff member stopped me and took the time to tell me that I should be getting a Playstation 4 instead as it was "way better".  I hadn't asked for his opinion, and he wasn't the staff member even helping me!  He chose to interrupt me in an effort to educate me about what my preferred choice of game console ought to be.  But I was going to plug it into a TV as a media box for movies and TV shows that I had already purchased on Xbox Video, and also wanted to use it to control the TV, and I'm also a big fan of Halo/Gears of War/Forza Horizon, so, no, the PS4 was not objectively "way better" for my purposes.  Was his enthusiasm for the PS4 any different than the vegan you speak of sharing his excitement with how awesome vegan food can be, though?

You're right of course that an omnivore can eat vegan food as well as non-vegan food.  I think your friend's comment may have been inspired by the fact that many omnivores believe that vegan food is boring/less appetizing (and you can see evidence of this in many of the comments in this thread).  Many people believe this themselves before going vegan, and then subsequently have their minds blown when they discover it's not necessarily true.  So there's an element of wanting to share it because they were themselves surprised, and wished they'd known that beforehand.

For what it's worth, as a former omnivore, I don't see the ability to eat both vegan and non-vegan food as much of a benefit, given I'm far healthier and happier as a vegan.  I was a reasonably healthy omnivore, but I'm an even healthier vegan (with the bloodwork to prove it).  Some vegans miss some things they used to eat, others don't (especially as the options continue to improve, meat alternatives become more realistic, etc.).

But yes, I do tend to keep it to myself unless invited to talk about it.  One of the things that "angry omnivores" don't get is that by cracking jokes and making other comments, they're actually bringing the topic up themselves.  Then they often go on to complain about the vegan's comments when it was the omnivore's comments that actually made it an issue in the first place.  As far as I'm concerned, someone who is cracking a joke about my diet is inviting me to comment on my diet, and anything is fair game at that point.  :)

Finally, at times it can be very hard to *not* acknowledge that you're vegan.  I've had experiences where I've been offered something, declined it without saying I was vegan, only to have someone follow up with a bunch of questions about why I was declining it.  Sometimes I feel that it's important that I acknowledge I'm vegan because otherwise this person is going to periodically offer me things, and I'm going to say no every time, and that's a mutual inconvenience that could be avoided simply by me explaining to them that I will always say no, and why I will always say no, when offered that particular thing.  Other times I find myself compelled to explain that I'm vegan when someone tries to add something to my food (such as at a restaurant, or a public event where food is being dished up).  Then there are the situations where you have to explain what being vegan is to someone who is offering you food, as you have to find out what's in it and they ask you why you're asking.  Let's not even get started about people who already know you're vegan, but are then shocked when you won't eat goat's cheese, or something they don't think of as an animal product for some weird reason (even though it obviously is).  So there are times where it can be very challenging to fail to acknowledge that you're vegan.  :)

Yes there are some "angry vegans" out there who are angry at being lied to by society since they were children, who are angry at the mistruths and outright lies pedalled by the vested interests in animal agriculture, etc.  These people are likely going to try to find a way to tell you that they're vegan, no question.  But there are far more "angry omnivores" who take every opportunity they can get to ridicule people for making veg-positive choices, and we've seen many examples of "angry omnivores" in this thread who seem to feel that they have something to prove.  With the vegan movement growing hugely every year, the odds of your co-workers or other people you know being vegan and you not knowing it increases, as the only people who're obviously vegan are the ones who're vocal about it, not the ones who choose to be quiet about it.  Like I say, the attitude that all vegans are vocal about it is a self-reinforcing falsehood, since by definition it's hard to know someone is vegan if they don't tell you.



NATO said:

What really? It's a good thing you told us again or we might have forgot

It's germane to the discussion.  When replying to someone in this thread for the first time, I don't choose to assume they've read any of my previous posts, nor should I, so it's worth establishing it when it's germane to the discussion.  No different than someone saying "I have a Nintendo Switch" when replying to a comment where that is germane to that discussion, and the person they're replying to may not have read the rest of the thread so may not know that.

So your attempt at ridicule is completely misplaced, IMO.  You're exhibiting a common trait of the "angry omnivore", my friend.



scrapking said:
Flilix said:
How did this thread get do much replies?

Anyways, the best thing you can do for your health is eating a only a little bit of meat (max 500g per week, including fish and eggs). For enviormental reasons etc, becoming vegan is of course the best thing. However, that could possibly cause some health problems.

Anything can cause health problems.  Being vegan can cause health problems if you mostly eat processed foods (Oreo cookies are vegan, for example).  Being an omnivore definitely causes health problems, since eating animal products is (for example) correlated and/or absolutely proven to relate to 14 of the top 15 causes of mortality in North America.

What health problems are you thinking of?  Statistically being vegan causes the fewest health problems.  Vegans are the only group that average in the ideal weight range.  Vegans get the most nutrients per calorie on average, and have fewer nutrient deficiencies in studies.  The Adventist health studies compare healthy populations (adventists tend to treat their bodies like temples and be active and avoid a lot of processed food), and the adventist vegans are healthier than the adventist vegetarians (which themselves are healthier than the adventist omnivores).

People obsess over vegans getting enough vitamin B12, yet huge numbers of omnivores also don't get enough vitamin B12.  And most omnivores are fibre deficient, and dietary fibre is probably the single-most important nutrient, and vegans are the only group that get anywhere close to enough fibre in their diet.

Of course you can live a healthy life as a vegan, but you need to consider better what you do and don't eat. I admire people who manage to be fully vegan, but for most people this is too much of an effort.



NATO said:

he hears you, yet spends the entire thread telling everyone that veganism is how humans are supposed to live, and how it can cure just about any ailment, and how humans aren't supposed to eat meat, and even in his very reply to you, can't help but push the narrative that if only everyone were vegan the planet would magically be saved.

What about your post did he actually hear?

 

My honest to god view on this whole topic is more or less the same as my view on religion.

Do whatever the fuck you want, just don't spend your life trying to get/force/guilt other people to do the same.
You're vegan? good for you, unless i'm cooking you something i don't need to know.
You're religious, good for you unless i'm cooking you something i don't need to know.

Am i cooking you something?
Yes: Tell me "no __ for me please, i'm vegan", or "no __ for me please, it's against my religion"
No: shut your damn mouth.

You think you know me.  You like to think you can peg me in a little box based on your experiences with others, your own biases, and your preconceptions.  You couldn't be more wrong.

I'm a former omnivore.  When I was an omnivore, I didn't believe a lot of the things I believe now.  But as new information was presented to me, I kept an open mind and gradually made changes.  Those changes were made over a 27 year span.

In the early days of concern over tobacco smoking, a lot of people denied that smoking caused cancer.  People said just smoke if you want, or smoke in moderation if you're worried about it.  But that's not what the preponderance of science said.

Similarly, people are saying a lot of the same things about meat now.  But again, that's not what the preponderance of science is saying.

Again, you think you know me.  I don't own a single piece of clothing with the word "vegan" on it.  I don't go around telling people I'm vegan.  I have spent most of my life not being vegan.  I keep it to myself until invited to do so.  You do realize that this thread is on the topic of veganism, right?  Do you go to threads about the Nintendo Switch just to attack people for being excited about the Switch, or thinking the Switch is the best thing going?

You have pigeon-holed me as closed minded, yet it's my open-mindedness that made me vegan.  In truth, I'm not eating a vegan diet, I'm eating an evidence-based diet.  And as the best evidence changes, so too does my diet.  I make changes to it on a monthly basis.

But in your haste to declare me closed minded, you're actually declaring your own closed-mindedness since your assumptions about me and my experience are just that, assumptions.  And most of your assumptions about me are wrong.

Last edited by scrapking - on 01 December 2017