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pokoko said:
Azzanation said:

Its only when CDs came out during the Sega CD and Sony PS1 that box art was more a scam. Most CD based games used CGI pictures for the back of the game box/cases. It was hard to tell which games were good back in the 80s and early 90s but it was all about keen eye and word of mouth. These days’ bad games can sell millions based off brand loyalty and advertisements. 1 million sellers back in the 80s and 90s you knew that game was awesome. These days we see games like The Order break a million which goes to show the type of industry it is today. Its not about the games anymore, it’s all about the brands. That’s the thing that the 80s and 90s didn’t worry about. You still had fanboys however the games did the talking not the consoles etc. 

I disagree with pretty much everything you said.  In the 80s and 90s, it was pretty much impossible to know what you were getting, which is why there was so much shovelware.  Game covers were usually illustrations that had little to do with actual game-play and magazine "reviews" were often fluff.  There was little internet access and no real way to find out if something were good unless it had a big marketing campaign behind it and lots of people had played it.  That's why I ended up renting a lot of junk back then and why terrible licensed games were everywhere.  No one knew what they were getting.  Way, way easier to know if something is a quality release now.

As far as the "brands" thing go, the 80s and 90s were all about brand names.  They were used to decide who was "cool".  I even remember this one rich kid who used to brag about his Intellivision and put down Atari all the time.  The only time I don't remember much fighting was the short period when the NES had no competition.

Back in those days we had Video stores where renting games and movies was a common thing. Yes we rented games to see if the game was worth purchasing. Selling games back in those days were very hard because people actually had paid demos and if the game wasn’t great during the customer’s rental period kiss your sales good bye.

 You’re going to compare one rich kid back in the early days to this entire generation of fanboys? Are you kidding yourself? People actually had brains back in the 80s and 90s and everything was a hard sell. Not many gamers gave a damn what brand you had (Unless your that rich kid) These days you have brand power, these companies tell us what to buy and what’s good for us instead of the other way around where companies had to prove themselves for your wallet.

There’s not even a slight comparison today and yesteryears.

 



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Azzanation said:
pokoko said:

I disagree with pretty much everything you said.  In the 80s and 90s, it was pretty much impossible to know what you were getting, which is why there was so much shovelware.  Game covers were usually illustrations that had little to do with actual game-play and magazine "reviews" were often fluff.  There was little internet access and no real way to find out if something were good unless it had a big marketing campaign behind it and lots of people had played it.  That's why I ended up renting a lot of junk back then and why terrible licensed games were everywhere.  No one knew what they were getting.  Way, way easier to know if something is a quality release now.

As far as the "brands" thing go, the 80s and 90s were all about brand names.  They were used to decide who was "cool".  I even remember this one rich kid who used to brag about his Intellivision and put down Atari all the time.  The only time I don't remember much fighting was the short period when the NES had no competition.

Back in those days we had Video stores where renting games and movies was a common thing. Yes we rented games to see if the game was worth purchasing. Selling games back in those days were very hard because people actually had paid demos and if the game wasn’t great during the customer’s rental period kiss your sales good bye.

 You’re going to compare one rich kid back in the early days to this entire generation of fanboys? Are you kidding yourself? People actually had brains back in the 80s and 90s and everything was a hard sell. Not many gamers gave a damn what brand you had (Unless your that rich kid) These days you have brand power, these companies tell us what to buy and what’s good for us instead of the other way around where companies had to prove themselves for your wallet.

There’s not even a slight comparison today and yesteryears.

 

Don't be blinded by nostalgia.  The 80s were one of the most brand-centric and superficial periods ever.  I remember my older sister sewing fake labels into her clothes.  I remember her buying unbranded polo shirts and sewing the emblem on.  I remember Sega fans calling Nintendo fans babies while Nintendo fans ganged up against them (I was a Nintendo fan then).

People have always been pretty much the same.  I know some people desperately want to believe that everything was better when they were kids but I much prefer being honest.



pokoko said:
Azzanation said:

Back in those days we had Video stores where renting games and movies was a common thing. Yes we rented games to see if the game was worth purchasing. Selling games back in those days were very hard because people actually had paid demos and if the game wasn’t great during the customer’s rental period kiss your sales good bye.

 You’re going to compare one rich kid back in the early days to this entire generation of fanboys? Are you kidding yourself? People actually had brains back in the 80s and 90s and everything was a hard sell. Not many gamers gave a damn what brand you had (Unless your that rich kid) These days you have brand power, these companies tell us what to buy and what’s good for us instead of the other way around where companies had to prove themselves for your wallet.

There’s not even a slight comparison today and yesteryears.

 

Don't be blinded by nostalgia.  The 80s were one of the most brand-centric and superficial periods ever.  I remember my older sister sewing fake labels into her clothes.  I remember her buying unbranded polo shirts and sewing the emblem on.  I remember Sega fans calling Nintendo fans babies while Nintendo fans ganged up against them (I was a Nintendo fan then).

People have always been pretty much the same.  I know some people desperately want to believe that everything was better when they were kids but I much prefer being honest.

blinded by nostalgia? Have you considered that he lived in a different place, with a different culture, habits, economic situation compared to you, so that's why he has a different perception about that time?

but, serious... Nintendo fans beating Sega fans on the street because they called them babies? What a time! This could be a movie. So veracious.



 

 

We reap what we sow

160rmf said:
pokoko said:

Don't be blinded by nostalgia.  The 80s were one of the most brand-centric and superficial periods ever.  I remember my older sister sewing fake labels into her clothes.  I remember her buying unbranded polo shirts and sewing the emblem on.  I remember Sega fans calling Nintendo fans babies while Nintendo fans ganged up against them (I was a Nintendo fan then).

People have always been pretty much the same.  I know some people desperately want to believe that everything was better when they were kids but I much prefer being honest.

blinded by nostalgia? Have you considered that he lived in a different place, with a different culture, habits, economic situation compared to you, so that's why he has a different perception about that time?

but, serious... Nintendo fans beating Sega fans on the street because they called them babies? What a time! This could be a movie. So veracious.

Beating them on the streets?  What are you talking about?  Stop being silly.

And why aren't you saying the same thing to him, then?  You'll sound awfully hypocritical otherwise.



Chazore said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Tell that to those who don't want Nintendo to go 3rd party. If liking their games is your only reason then you shouldn't care whether they're 3rd party or not because the games will still be there...

Really the same could be said for the other two as well.

They should all go 3rd party. (PC)



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pokoko said:
160rmf said:

blinded by nostalgia? Have you considered that he lived in a different place, with a different culture, habits, economic situation compared to you, so that's why he has a different perception about that time?

but, serious... Nintendo fans beating Sega fans on the street because they called them babies? What a time! This could be a movie. So veracious.

Beating them on the streets?  What are you talking about?  Stop being silly.

And why aren't you saying the same thing to him, then?  You'll sound awfully hypocritical otherwise.

LOL! I am sorry, language mistake. I am still learning english. i made a confusion with "ganging up". lol

Yes, i think the same can be applied to him, but he wasn't the one talking about being blinded by nostalgia. His historical testify seems very plausible, because i somewhat identify with him during the 90's, game rental was pretty big that time and games were so much expensive where i live, so you had to be absolutely right about your purchase.

And i only had contact with fanboyism accidentally accessing a gaming forum 4 years ago. I am yet to see fanboy wars IRL. So what you are saying is kinda funny to me.



 

 

We reap what we sow

160rmf said:
pokoko said:

Beating them on the streets?  What are you talking about?  Stop being silly.

And why aren't you saying the same thing to him, then?  You'll sound awfully hypocritical otherwise.

LOL! I am sorry, language mistake. I am still learning english. i made a confusion with "ganging up". lol

Yes, i think the same can be applied to him, but he wasn't the one talking about being blinded by nostalgia. His historical testify seems very plausible, because i somewhat identify with him during the 90's, game rental was pretty big that time and games were so much expensive where i live, so you had to be absolutely right about your purchase.

And i only had contact with fanboyism accidentally accessing a gaming forum 4 years ago. I am yet to see fanboy wars IRL. So what you are saying is kinda funny to me.

Ah, sorry then, if it was a misunderstanding.

As far as the other situation, he was making a blanket statement that certainly doesn't mesh with what I remember.  The Playstation/Nintendo/Sega fighting was darn fierce in my school.  



160rmf said:
pokoko said:

Beating them on the streets?  What are you talking about?  Stop being silly.

And why aren't you saying the same thing to him, then?  You'll sound awfully hypocritical otherwise.

LOL! I am sorry, language mistake. I am still learning english. i made a confusion with "ganging up". lol

Yes, i think the same can be applied to him, but he wasn't the one talking about being blinded by nostalgia. His historical testify seems very plausible, because i somewhat identify with him during the 90's, game rental was pretty big that time and games were so much expensive where i live, so you had to be absolutely right about your purchase.

And i only had contact with fanboyism accidentally accessing a gaming forum 4 years ago. I am yet to see fanboy wars IRL. So what you are saying is kinda funny to me.

I have to agree with pokoko on this. Brand power existed just as much then as it does now. You were also more likely to get shovelware back then too. It was far more difficult to make an informed decision on a game. All you had to go by was marketing ploys/reviews in gaming mags and heresay. Now we have something called youtube where you can look up a multitude of reviews, gameplay vids, trailers, demos. etc and make a decision based off of that. Nostalgia is coloring Azzanation's perspective of the "good ol' days". Games are infinitely better as a whole than in the 80's and 90's.



midrange said:
bigtakilla said:

None of what you wrote relates to what I'm talking about except the last paragraph, lol. (And Breath of The Wild took home a lot more than just one award, I just listed the first that was announced, it also won Game Rants best of E3, as well as MTV's Best Open World, there will probably be many more awards than that.)

You're taking what I wrote and forcing meaning on it.

But to get to the last paragraph, no. Even with more power I don't think Wii U would have gotten any more games. It's proven by PS3 and Xbox 360 still getting games (at least in the prior years) and not the Wii U. 

Point is, zelda wasn't that great. It was good, but it was far from stealing the show despite the praises (because many other games also had similar praise).

Why is this relevant? Because it's the only wii u game to come out in 2017. No other developer wants to work with the wii u and this is because of the hardware. Even Zelda is struggling on the wii u (as shown by the 2 year delay and the fps drops).

More power is only a component of better hardware. Architecture is very important and this was shown by how the ps3 (it's funny that you mentioned this) lacked games early in its life (because of the overly complex cell processor). The fact that the wii u opted for power pc architecture over x86 led to the wii u facing the same slow start as the ps3. The fact that the wii missed out on HD is what led to its slow sales later on. The fact that the wii u has a weak cpu has lead to many devs to give up.

But if the wii u is somewhat stronger than the ps3, why did it get less support? Because developers left the wii and HAD to get familiar with the ps3. By the time the wii u came out, developers didnt need to do that again since the ps3 and xbox 360 had a much bigger install base and roughly similar graphical output compared to the wii u.

The Ps4 and the xbox one on the other hand are much easier to work with and produce MUCH clearer differences. That's why all the developers went to those consoles.

That's why I'm salty as a wii u owner and why I have a right to complain about the hardware

You can complain, but complain about the real issues which you do have one solid issue you mentioned, the architecture.

Even if LoZ was only as praised as the rest of the top E3 showings, that's kind of my point. It isn't being held back because of its power to wow people, hell their are games praised that wish the 20s were the lowest they hit (FF XV, and Scalebound anyone?) and Zelda had no frame drops. 



bigtakilla said:
midrange said:

Point is, zelda wasn't that great. It was good, but it was far from stealing the show despite the praises (because many other games also had similar praise).

Why is this relevant? Because it's the only wii u game to come out in 2017. No other developer wants to work with the wii u and this is because of the hardware. Even Zelda is struggling on the wii u (as shown by the 2 year delay and the fps drops).

More power is only a component of better hardware. Architecture is very important and this was shown by how the ps3 (it's funny that you mentioned this) lacked games early in its life (because of the overly complex cell processor). The fact that the wii u opted for power pc architecture over x86 led to the wii u facing the same slow start as the ps3. The fact that the wii missed out on HD is what led to its slow sales later on. The fact that the wii u has a weak cpu has lead to many devs to give up.

But if the wii u is somewhat stronger than the ps3, why did it get less support? Because developers left the wii and HAD to get familiar with the ps3. By the time the wii u came out, developers didnt need to do that again since the ps3 and xbox 360 had a much bigger install base and roughly similar graphical output compared to the wii u.

The Ps4 and the xbox one on the other hand are much easier to work with and produce MUCH clearer differences. That's why all the developers went to those consoles.

That's why I'm salty as a wii u owner and why I have a right to complain about the hardware

You can complain, but complain about the real issues which you do have one solid issue you mentioned, the architecture.

Even if LoZ was only as praised as the rest of the top E3 showings, that's kind of my point. It isn't being held back because of its power to wow people, hell their are games praised that wish the 20s were the lowest they hit (FF XV, and Scalebound anyone?) and Zelda had no frame drops. 

No, it is being held back. The only reason why it looks good is because Nintendo is focusing on ONE game. If this game wasn't being held back by hardware, why has it come out 2 YEARS late?

asode from architecture, gpu is a major concern