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Forums - Politics Discussion - The System Isn’t ‘Rigged’ Against Sanders; Clinton’s winning because more Democrats want her to be the nominee

Soundwave said:

Yeah but the irony here is it's the Sanders camp now calling on superdelegates to over turn the will of the majority of voters (in which Clinton is leading). 

Hilary has more votes plain and simple, has nothing to do with delegates, superdelegates or anything, Bernie has less votes which means he's run a spirited campaign, but ultimately a losing campaign. 

When Clinton lost to Obama she did eventually cede and fall in line, Bernie should do the same if he loses. 

Granted, Hillary does have more votes but superdelegates can painfully influence primaries early on. It's absolute insanity how Clinton was able to garner 400 more delegates than Sanders did only just before the first month of the primaries so you can't exactly deny the snowball effect that they have in the nomination process ... 

Superdelegates should never be able to pick before the primaries are over even if they are uncommitted. Ideally they shouldn't even exist at all since it goes against the idea of what a widespread democracy stands for ...

Had superdelegates kept their allegiances anonymous early on in the race, the voting results would have turned out somewhat differently if it were not for party officials screwing around by bending the race to vouch for what the entire establishment wanted ... 

The anti-sanders supporters are right that the system isn't rigged but pro-sanders supporters are right about it having twisted rules ...



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The pledged delegates at the end of the day aren't what's 'rigged' about the system, it's everything leading up to them. The DNC chose their candidate long ago (Hillary), regardless of who the major populous would want for themselves. She then had every advantage possible given to her at the start of this race, from Super PAC funding to hundreds of superdelegates right out of the gate to corporate media limelight. Everything was set up from the beginning to make it seem like she was the only choice for their party.

Then the suppression kicks in, from gerrymandering to voting technicalities excluding unfavorable demographics to the complete underrepresentation of major competition in the media. Bernie can draw record crowds at his speeches but often all you hear about him from major outlets (besides 'omg socialism!') is that a bird landed on his podium or a handful of protesters rushed the stage. The system chose Hillary for the left a long time ago and Bernie has fought the odds every step of the way. That he has even come this close is incredible. Were it not for such an unethical system stacking the deck before its even dealt, he would likely be our Democratic nominee. I will vote for him in the upcoming California primaries and again if he runs Independent. I will not enable a corrupt system however it weakens the party.

Didn't mean to sound so charged. I'm not usually very political, but I guess I feel strongly about this upcoming election.



There are just a lot of dumb rules to prevent people like Sanders from becoming President or even a Congress person. Arizona and Nevada were a disaster for obvious reasons.
But New York is just the worst. Sanders won all but 4 counties out of many, at least 40. But she did the best in the more popular counties. The thing that is ridiculous, is Independents had to register as a democrat to vote for him back in October 2015 when New York didn't even vote until what, April 2016?
Okay, rules are rules, whatever. The problem is that the first debate didn't even air until after the New York deadline. Sanders and his policies were unknown to many and sadly they were unable to vote. If the New York deadline was not so ridiculous, he would have won New York easily and his campaign would have had SOOOO much more momentum heading into other states.
It is just ridiculous that the majority of American's are registered as Independent did not have a chance to vote. You literally should be able to vote for whomever you think is best, Republican or Democrat without these deadlines. It is just obstructing democracy and making it easy for people like Clinton to stomp their competition.

But I agree with everything in the post after the original post. Perfectly said.



It's rigged, this cycle of as the most undemocratic cycle.
Polling both closed, registration deadline for independents trying to vote for Bernie. Basically if we're a registered Rep, or Indi trying to vote Bernie there was some type of method used by the DNC that prevented you from voting. Some of these methods the DNC pulled out of their ass this cycle.
They literally stopped people from voting and turned down votes.



You're not a democracy anyway.

Your 2 party system forces you to choose between a handful of candidates, then the lobbys throw money at the race and decide which candidate will be the most popular, then the most popular candidate wins.

All the while, all this shit isn't even decided by a universal suffrage, nope, you have an indirect suffrage where you decide that other people will vote for you, thing is, when it comes to chosing candidates, they do whatever they want anyway.

I know politics are fucked up everywhere in the world, in my country too. But the US system to elect your leader is really shameful.



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It is just the way it is. It is Capitalism at work. More wealth results in more power and influence. There is no point in the average citizen voting.



It's because Sanders would be an even worse choice for the country?



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SpokenTruth said:
Soundwave said:
Clinton should be the nominee, she has more overall votes than Sanders does.

Of course now the Sanders camp is saying the superdelegates should over turn the popular vote and put Sanders above Clinton ... so suddenly superdelegates aren't so bad when they overturn the will of the majority, so long as they're doing it for their candidate of choice.

How much influence on the votes do you think the superdelgate advantage gave Clinton?

The media has touted Clintons superdelegate count since the beginning as proof of her iinevitable nomination.   So at the voting booth, a split person is going to give it to Clinton.

She had 23% of the required delegate count before the race even began because of super delegates.

So get rid of the delegates and superdelegates and leave it up to the people via a vote ... guess what? Clinton wins. 

Sanders is the one who needs superdelegates to overturn the will of the majority. 

Clinton doesn't have a magical hold on delegates/superdelegates either, they all turned on her in favor of Obama in 2008, but Obama actually had far more votes than Bernie does. So superdelegates supporting one candidate early on isn't a be all/end all, Clinton had their support early in 2008 too but lost because Obama started getting more votes. Bernie hasn't done that though. 

Right now Clinton has the 2nd or 3rd highest amount of votes ever given to a candidate in a primary race, only Obama/Clinton in 2008 are higher. She has more votes than Trump or Sanders this year. 



Sharpryno said:
There are just a lot of dumb rules to prevent people like Sanders from becoming President or even a Congress person. Arizona and Nevada were a disaster for obvious reasons.
But New York is just the worst. Sanders won all but 4 counties out of many, at least 40. But she did the best in the more popular counties. The thing that is ridiculous, is Independents had to register as a democrat to vote for him back in October 2015 when New York didn't even vote until what, April 2016?
Okay, rules are rules, whatever. The problem is that the first debate didn't even air until after the New York deadline. Sanders and his policies were unknown to many and sadly they were unable to vote. If the New York deadline was not so ridiculous, he would have won New York easily and his campaign would have had SOOOO much more momentum heading into other states.
It is just ridiculous that the majority of American's are registered as Independent did not have a chance to vote. You literally should be able to vote for whomever you think is best, Republican or Democrat without these deadlines. It is just obstructing democracy and making it easy for people like Clinton to stomp their competition.

But I agree with everything in the post after the original post. Perfectly said.

i live in an open primary state so i can say with first hand knowledge that...

https://ballotpedia.org/Closed_primary

Proponents of closed primaries argue that they preserve a political party's freedom of association and prevent members of other parties from "crossing over" to influence the nomination of an opposing party's candidate.[3][17]

..is a thing.  i know quite a few people that are democrats that voted in the republican primary just to vote trump to "fuck with them".  don't get me wrong,.. there are arguments against closed primaries that are good points but the issue isn't that black and white.

 

also most independants can still vote:



WolfpackN64 said:
snyps said:

Have you heard the quote 

 

“A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.”

 

 

When asked what system of government they had forged, Ben Franklin replied, "A Republic if you can keep it." Ideally, a proper democracy in a Republic is conducted by small groups consisting of a few hundred land owners electing their 7-8 delegates. Those delegates from each county make up a few hundred and they decide the party candidate. That is the right way to make the U.S. Government of the people, by the people, for the people.

Conversely, a system were every person votes directly in a popular vote, irresponsible out number the responsible. The election gets decided by the ones that won't lift a finger to change a thing. The Democratic Party is so well trusted by it's supporters that it has given itself more voting power than it's individual members. The Superdelegate is not a thing in The Republican Party. In this converse system that we have today, the candidate, and thus the U.S. Government, is made; of the bank, by the bank, for the bank.

A Republic is the only right way to run a democracy. But we have lost it.

That's really a big bunch of hooey. You're defending a democratic deficit. The US should enter the 21st century, not be stuck with the basis of a system from the 18th.

Liberty is a new approach to governance and it came in the age of enlightenment.  This new concept worked for 100 years and was dismantled in 1913. The system you want is much older.