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Forums - Politics Discussion - Bernie Sanders confuses me

A lot of sentiment and misunderstanding going on in this thread. The bottom line is the infinite-growth paradigm is non-sustainable and electing the status-quo again will continue to stifle the economy. And then there are the intangibles that make a population better and more effective which you cannot put a price on. So you can worry about the minuscule purchasing power you have and hope that things will be just enough or you can do something about it for a better society.



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kitler53 said:
Sharpryno said:
..

You really don't know what you are talking about.  

Sanders has proposed two tax plan changes to the middle class.
1.  Healthcare: Increases by .75% on top of the 1.50% we currently pay.  The advantage is your deductible costs hardly anything, and no copays, so your employer pays significantly less.   With the government being the only customer of healthcare, you can bet they'll demand to pay what other countries pay.  We pay far more for worse quality, which we rank 18th in while France is 1st, and pays half as much as us. 
2.  Paid family leave.  Pay $1.65 per week so parents can receive paid time off with a newborn for 90 days.  They'd still be able to work when they can if they wanted.

If you make under $250k a year your tax bracket stays the same.  So far that those are only increases he has suggested.  

no,. you don't get it.

single payer health care isn't what you make it out to be.  52k canadian's traveled to the us last year for their health care because in the single payer system when you're ailment is classified as non-life threatening you may not receive any treatment or be required to wait and absurd amount of time to recieve treatment and ussually time the most advanced treatments aren't covered in order to keep health care affordable.

american health care may be ranked poorly overall but those numbers are absurdly skewed by the cost of health care.  the kinds of treatments availible and the quality of those treatments are fantatisic if you can afford them.   and those absurd costs is why 10 years later other countries can take cheap generics and keep low cost health care.  without the united states health care would stagnat world wide.

 

and where the fuck do you get the idea that taxes only go up for those who make more than 250k?  bernies plan raises everyone's income tax by 2.2% regardless. and that 6.2% corporate tax isn't going to just come out of busniess's massive profit margins people seem to think every company makes,.. that increase will be passed on to america in the form of higher prices for the things you buy and job losses.  and the 34.2% captal gains tax fucks everyone as that is the kind of income 401ks are,.. your retirment plan just got pillaged and you'll probably end up on government welfare despite all your best efforts to prepare for retirement.

read up dude: http://www.fool.com/retirement/general/2016/02/07/bernie-sanders-income-tax-brackets-how-much-would.aspx

suicide.

hilary for 2016,.. a realistic canidate for a real world. 

Yes, public healthcare only covers a list of things.  You're more than welcome to get private healthcare on the side if you want covered for specific things.  
I don't think profit should be made from someone's health.   Wait times, US is ranked 10th.  Canada ranked 9th.   US healthcare quality ranks 18th, while France, who cost relative to their GPD is about 7% less than us and they still have the best quality in the world.
I know friends in South Dakota who travel to Canada to get prescriptions because they costs hundreds of $ less in that country. 
There are a shit load of people that do it who live near the Mexico area as well.
These corporations are sucking people dry because they literally can without government intervention. 

I was talking about two different things.  Healthcare tax will increase 0.75% (so from 1.5% to 2.25%, like I said before) of what we currently pay.   Your federal tax, you know, the largest one that gets taken out will not change if you make under $250,000 a year.  I make north of $70,000 so I am in the clear.  I have zero problems with paying a tad more for single payer healthcare.  I understand its a ridiculously complicated issue within a country with so many people, but fearing change is what people should not be doing.  

The current ACA: 44% of people who filed for bankruptcy did so because of medical expenses even though they were insured in 2015.  Ridiculous. 



Nettles said:
Teeqoz said:
Read up:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

Everyone pays higher tax under Sanders and yet his numbers still don't add up.

Read this : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-02/why-bernie-sanders-has-raise-taxes-middle-class

That might be the case but the conclusion of that article is false. Yes taxes go up, however since health care will be payed by those taxes the cost of living goes down. So even if people earn less after taxes, that doesn't mean they have less spending power. So the real question is what happens to the actual spending power?

Also i don't see the increased tax revenue that higher minimum wages would provide anywere(though this might not be a huge amount).

Most importantly though the increased tax revenue of taking on tax evading corporations isn't mention anywhere. Wich pretty much tells you the real motive of this article.



Teeqoz said:
MikeRox said:

Are there any detailed costings? That reads alot like the UK Labour party's "mansion tax" stuff did in 2015.

That said universal healthcare works in so many other countries etc that it must be viable in the US, the question is for Americans want to pay the tax that would require?

Not sure what you mean by detailed costings?

 

Clearly demonstrable figures of how the funding for the proposals will be achieved.

 

I.E raising this tax by x% we believe will generate $X which will pay for this to be funded.

 

Or is it just "we'll increase taxes and this will pay for " pipeline of cool sounding things".

 

Then when they try to do it "oh wait it doesn't work, so you can't have that anyway, but hey, we tried!"



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

the-pi-guy said:

 

Nettles said:

This is interesting... If Sanders does get in and bring in free college what about all the folks who have these student loans?

Last figure i heard was 1.3 trill in student loans outstanding.How pissed off will the folks with 50k student debt be if the next students don't pay a dime? I am curious to see the outcome.

Think it's a bit silly to be pissed off for a reason like that.  I know a handful of people that pretty much are already not paying a dime.  

Yep. I recently read about American students who fled America for Germany because of their student loans. 



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
the-pi-guy said:

 

Think it's a bit silly to be pissed off for a reason like that.  I know a handful of people that pretty much are already not paying a dime.  

Yep. I recently read about American students who fled America for Germany because of their student loans. 

 

Was it just to avoid paying them? My wife's student loans eat over a quarter of our joint income! She lives in the UK with me now. But her parents are co signers so if she does paying, they'd go after her parents instead, which I don't think would go down well.

 

I think if they made tuition totally free, they'd also have to look at helping existing graduates with their repayments. Finding something in the middle lowering graduate repayments to sensible amounts (and the same for future students) would be a better place and easy to start making college more affordable.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

hershel_layton said:

His plans for America make me skeptical- $15 minimum wage, free college, universal health care, etc etc.

 

I understand European countries doing so, but America? An extremely important country with 300 million civilians in it? Can Bernie's vision of a country benefit us? 

 

Our debt is already bad as it is. Wouldn't his goals make our debt skyrocket once again?

If your financial institutions would stop taking huge risks and putting so many middle class families in debt, your debt problem wouldn't be so big. Not to mention that if more citizens can achieve better education and get better jobs, that benefits the economy and thus the US treasury.

Otherwise, I can see another debt crisis arise when the amount of people defaulting on their debt becomes too big.



fatslob-:O said:
His proposals are bat shit insane from an economical standpoint ...

His solution is totally robbing businesses of any money ...

No it isn't. Maybe some large corporations will finally have to pay the tax money they have been whisking away to tax paradises since decades?



haxxiy said:

I wouldn't say Bernie is more "brave" or "ideologically pure" than any other candidate. The fact is that "anti-estabilishment" candidates are basically irrelevant on large game politics, and have never been required to compromise towards any of their goals. Should Bernie get ellected - which he won't, because a candidate like him will be lolstomped by basically any Republican nominee - probably even Trump - he would be another Alexis Tsipras, unable to do anything even remotely ressembling his promisses and hated by two thirds of the populace.

On the flip side, Bernie does support the recognition of the Armenian Genocide unlike basically every American president so far... even though he predictably turns a blind eye on the atrocities Israel commit against Palestinians. So I'd watch out for even more Israel support and military/financial help in his government.

 

Wow I though you were a conservative, Haxxiy, instead of just another pro-Palestinian.

All the way from Brazil, but still sees the evil of the Jews.



fatslob-:O said:

Every American citizen would have to pay at least a comparable flat rate of 10% for Sander's plan to work and that's not even adding the already existing government expenses ...

Tons of businesses will be tempted to leave the US to do it's operations elsewhere ...

You know the state can just seize assets if they attempt to do so just to flee taxes they know they should have paid and are perfectly capable of paying.