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Project H.A.M.M.E.R untold story, the fall of Nintendo Software Technology and racism within Nintendo

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Project H.A.M.M.E.R untold story, the fall of Nintendo Software Technology and racism within Nintendo

This is an amazing thread. We're seeing all the deny, deflect, and discredit reactions up close and personal. The best so far have been from people who didn't even watch the video, which always makes things fun. It's been a joy to witness.

Still, it's a shame that people try to bury the point beneath defensive rhetoric. There is a lot to learn from this and a lot that could be gained from honest discussion. I truly hope that NoA gained some insights from the results of their inquiry and that those results were passed along and given due consideration by upper Nintendo management. After all, they lost millions of dollars over this.



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Ruler said:

yep Nintendo shutting down an American Studio is racist (which is not possible because Americans are not an ethnicity) but Microsoft shutting down Japanese developers like Mistwalker and Artoon is totally fine and has no discrimination involved according to the media?

Nintendo's Wii was never made for AAA but this studio wanted to go in the direction which is more expensive to develop than cartoony games made by Nintendo. Its no rocket science why they didnt want to support this game for the Wii which sold millions despite being a last gen console and lacking AAA games at the time. The game doesnt fit with Nintendos concept.

You have no credibility whatsoever when you say MS shut down Mistwalker and Artoon.

-Mistwalker is still active

-Artoon belonged to a Japanese publisher that filed for bankruptcy

Defend Nintendo but don't add bullshit in the middle.



Do you have fun playing a console different than mine?

DON'T!!!

pokoko said:
This is an amazing thread. We're seeing all the deny, deflect, and discredit reactions up close and personal. The best so far have been from people who didn't even watch the video, which always makes things fun. It's been a joy to witness.

Still, it's a shame that people try to bury the point beneath defensive rhetoric. There is a lot to learn from this and a lot that could be gained from honest discussion. I truly hope that NoA gained some insights from the results of their inquiry and that those results were passed along and given due consideration by upper Nintendo management. After all, they lost millions of dollars over this.

What's there to learn from this? The developers weren't good enough to make an original game, then the management tried to save it instead of canning it. We haven't heard anything about the denied changes that the developers wanted to make, so there is no reason to assume that this game could have been turned into something worthwhile.

The aftermath is that many developers left the studio and the changes led to an unspectacular, but solid, output of software since then.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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If this was moved to the Wii U, I would get it. Reminds me of Darksiders and Bayonetta mixed together. (Gameplay wise).



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gigaSheik said:
Samus Aran said:

Not every Nintendo studio makes good games, NST is one of them. That's all that can be said about it. Who's to blame? Both the managment and developers. How come Retro Studios is able to make good game after good game?

Maybe NST has a difficulty understanding design goals because Hunters is the worst selling Metroid game and it was on Nintendo's biggest userbase. Just because it has a multiplayer doesn't mean the singleplayer has to suck. Metroid Prime: Federation Force looks equally shitty to me.

Nintendo is to blame. Defenetely. I'm glad you mentioned Retro. Obviously Nintendo assigned a good team to manage Retro. And it wasn't without its share of problems. Many Retro games were canceled, like Ravenblade, and a lot of people were laid off as well but Nintendo wanted Metroid Prime to succeed. They never showed this dedication to NST. NST failure is Nintendo failure as a game company. They never really wanted NST to be successful. Nintendo was lazy and incompetent. Nintendo is to blame.

Nintendo is to blame?

 

You said it right there, nintendo managed to turn around Retro Studios, which was in shambles before Nintendo of Japan basically came in and cleaned house.

Nintendo treated Next Level Games so well that they stated they "We have worked with a lot of other companies before, and we're super happy with our relationship with Nintendo. There's no reason to look anywhere else. They keep giving us better and better IP to work with, and as long as we do our job and make good games for them there's no reason for us to venture out."

 

Rare was one of the hottest game devs under Nintendo, then they went to Microsoft and turned to shit?

 

If Nintendo can make three western devs under its belt produce excellent games and NST can't? Maybe NST were just not good enough?

 

pokoko said:
This is an amazing thread. We're seeing all the deny, deflect, and discredit reactions up close and personal. The best so far have been from people who didn't even watch the video, which always makes things fun. It's been a joy to witness.

Still, it's a shame that people try to bury the point beneath defensive rhetoric. There is a lot to learn from this and a lot that could be gained from honest discussion. I truly hope that NoA gained some insights from the results of their inquiry and that those results were passed along and given due consideration by upper Nintendo management. After all, they lost millions of dollars over this.



What's there to learn? This is basically layed off NST devs giving their side of the story. People with a vested interest in showing Nintendo in a bad light. There is no proof of any of these allegations. As I said above, Next Level Games is ecstatic to be working with Nintendo, Retro Studios was turned around by Nintendo...etc etc. Until we get Nintendo's side of the story, these are jsut accusations. Nothing else.



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Of course they're to blame. Nintendo even sent Miyamoto to Retro studios and other japanese designers to supervise Retro work. Laid off a lot of staff and hired new people. Nintendo really wanted that game to work. If Nintendo were not able to reproduce that level of management with NST, Nintendo is to blame. 



RolStoppable said:
pokoko said:
This is an amazing thread. We're seeing all the deny, deflect, and discredit reactions up close and personal. The best so far have been from people who didn't even watch the video, which always makes things fun. It's been a joy to witness.

Still, it's a shame that people try to bury the point beneath defensive rhetoric. There is a lot to learn from this and a lot that could be gained from honest discussion. I truly hope that NoA gained some insights from the results of their inquiry and that those results were passed along and given due consideration by upper Nintendo management. After all, they lost millions of dollars over this.

What's there to learn from this? The developers weren't good enough to make an original game, then the management tried to save it instead of canning it. We haven't heard anything about the denied changes that the developers wanted to make, so there is no reason to assume that this game could have been turned into something worthwhile.

The aftermath is that many developers left the studio and the changes led to an unspectacular, but solid, output of software since then.

Wow, that's ... quite a take on the situation.  You're saying that the management of NST had nothing to do with the game until late in development?  That they had nothing to do with the planning and direction of the project?  That they didn't become involved until they had to "save" the game?  Because that doesn't make much sense and I don't remember it as what the video was saying.  Do you have an alternate source for that?

From what I understood from the narrative, the game was bad in the first place because management and development were not on the same page at all.  Developers knew it wasn't very good but no little or no input on the direction the game was taking.  I simply don't understand why you'd want to put all the blame on the developers.

You really don't have to bend over backwards to protect some middle-management types.  Admitting that the development situation at NST was toxic does not make Nintendo as a whole look bad.  It's pretty clear that when you have mass resignations that you're dealing with a less than perfect working environment.  ANY business will try to understand the problems and what went wrong so that it does not happen again.  That's business 101.



burning_phoneix said:

 

pokoko said:
This is an amazing thread. We're seeing all the deny, deflect, and discredit reactions up close and personal. The best so far have been from people who didn't even watch the video, which always makes things fun. It's been a joy to witness.

Still, it's a shame that people try to bury the point beneath defensive rhetoric. There is a lot to learn from this and a lot that could be gained from honest discussion. I truly hope that NoA gained some insights from the results of their inquiry and that those results were passed along and given due consideration by upper Nintendo management. After all, they lost millions of dollars over this.



What's there to learn? This is basically layed off NST devs giving their side of the story. People with a vested interest in showing Nintendo in a bad light. There is no proof of any of these allegations. As I said above, Next Level Games is ecstatic to be working with Nintendo, Retro Studios was turned around by Nintendo...etc etc. Until we get Nintendo's side of the story, these are jsut accusations. Nothing else.



Layoffs?  What are you talking about?



Sounds like sour grapes.

Calling Nintendo racist is quite a charge. But... I can see it I suppose. Miyamoto showing up in a samurai suit, which is the equivalent to a KKK robe in Iapan, and yelling at them:

"You filthy flabby gaijins! I made this studio, and pay you, not to be a great and successful developer, but so I can be your overlord! Bow down before our Emperor and sing the national anthem of Japan and rick my feet! I am Miyamoto! You are filthy gaijin, lose weight with MY creation, Wii Fit. Muahahahaha! Gaijin scumbags!"

Every single interview of Iwata and Miyamoto certainly points towards racism. I hear them talking in Japanese so no one else can understand them. I bet they are constantly using racial slurs. Think about it, Japan, you know, xenophobia, they are even making a game called Xenoblade, probably to celebrate racism.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

pokoko said:
RolStoppable said:

What's there to learn from this? The developers weren't good enough to make an original game, then the management tried to save it instead of canning it. We haven't heard anything about the denied changes that the developers wanted to make, so there is no reason to assume that this game could have been turned into something worthwhile.

The aftermath is that many developers left the studio and the changes led to an unspectacular, but solid, output of software since then.

Wow, that's ... quite a take on the situation.  You're saying that the management of NST had nothing to do with the game until late in development?  That they had nothing to do with the planning and direction of the project?  That they didn't become involved until they had to "save" the game?  Because that doesn't make much sense and I don't remember it as what the video was saying.  Do you have an alternate source for that?

From what I understood from the narrative, the game was bad in the first place because management and development were not on the same page at all.  Developers knew it wasn't very good but no little or no input on the direction the game was taking.  I simply don't understand why you'd want to put all the blame on the developers.

You really don't have to bend over backwards to protect some middle-management types.  Admitting that the development situation at NST was toxic does not make Nintendo as a whole look bad.  It's pretty clear that when you have mass resignations that you're dealing with a less than perfect working environment.  ANY business will try to understand the problems and what went wrong so that it does not happen again.  That's business 101.

I am saying that the core gameplay was conceived by the developers, and only afterwards did the situation arise that the developers and management couldn't agree on a solution. During the initial phase of game development, management lays out a direction, but it's up to the developers to create the basic gameplay. Like, management says that they want to have a giant hammer as the main weapon in the game, but the developers get to work and come up with a combat system. Said combat is the reason why this game was never any fun at any point, so that is the developers' fault.

I didn't put all the blame on the developers. I said the game should have been canned instead of continuing development. This includes especially the management decision to change the artstyle, because poor core gameplay is going to remain poor core gameplay regardless of the game's looks.

I'll ignore the first two sentences of your last paragraph because they don't apply to me. Like I said in my previous post, the aftermath is that development at NST has run smoothly since then. So the question remains, what's there to learn from this? The culprits of the failed Project H.A.M.M.E.R. are gone; the developers have resigned, the management has been replaced or if it's still in place, it hasn't committed the same mistake since then. Additionally, how many Nintendo-affiliated studios have gone through something similar since 2009 when NST's failure got cancelled for good? It doesn't seem like there have been any significant problems, so it looks like you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club