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Forums - Politics Discussion - Greece Defaults. What now?

MikeRox on 05 July 2015
Qwark said:
MikeRox said:


Sadly this is where Greece's problems kick in. The logical thing, would be to reduce Greece's debt, and put the country on a sustainable path back to prosperity. However, Portugal and Ireland took their medicine without such concessions. More so though, if Greece is allowed haircuts on it's debts, Spain and Italy etc will start to demand the same.

There is also the fallout in Germany where the population seem to be incredibly reluctant to any kind of support for Greece. I suspect Angela Merkel would be more forgiving in terms, were it not such a vote loser in Germany.

Let's not forget UK which is probably even more reluctant against another hopeless investment, bringing the BRexit closer. Even if you erase all Greece it debts it's economic system and taxation system are corrupt to the core. The path back to prospeirity is the EU parlement completely taking completely over for 2 years and making radical changes aka transforming it in a northern European country, I doubt Greece is wanting that.


On the Greece front, the UK isn't so invested as it is. I think even in 2010 the UK Gov were refusing to put money in. So there is just about 10bn Euros in our commercial banks in Greece.

I don't think a BRexit is coming closer though.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

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Psychotic on 05 July 2015
routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.



krippaz on 05 July 2015

Greece problem is that it always have had had budget deficit. It seams they always voted for the party who promised the most to the people. A country cant be sustainible if it always have budget deficit, but why the greeks always voted for budget deficit is beyond me.



routsounmanman on 05 July 2015
Psychotic said:
routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.

"democracy", "arent't fit to vote responsibly"

You sure know your stuff about democracy...



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nanarchy on 05 July 2015
krippaz said:
Greece problem is that it always have had had budget deficit. It seams they always voted for the party who promised the most to the people. A country cant be sustainible if it always have budget deficit, but why the greeks always voted for budget deficit is beyond me.


I think Winston said it best

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

and

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

So many seem to think Greece is already at the bottom and things can't get worse, should they not find a deal with the EU they will find out how very wrong they are. long term a grexit would be good for them, but short term  (many years) they will experience a lot of what 3rd countries suffer every day where even essential items become a luxury.



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generic-user-1 on 05 July 2015
Psychotic said:
routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.

 far left my ass... syriza is just not neoliberal they dont want state capitalism like the udssr had, or communism, they dont even want socialism.   they want a more social democratic system, thats not realy  problem, those system have the best results in the long run.



Qwark on 05 July 2015
generic-user-1 said:
Psychotic said:
routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.

 far left my ass... syriza is just not neoliberal they dont want state capitalism like the udssr had, or communism, they dont even want socialism.   they want a more social democratic system, thats not realy  problem, those system have the best results in the long run.


That system will end in an even more corrupt country. Like China, Cuba, Soviet, East gemany that system is almost extinct for a reason it doesn't work with humans only with robots



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

generic-user-1 on 05 July 2015
Qwark said:
generic-user-1 said:
Psychotic said:
routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.

 far left my ass... syriza is just not neoliberal they dont want state capitalism like the udssr had, or communism, they dont even want socialism.   they want a more social democratic system, thats not realy  problem, those system have the best results in the long run.


That system will end in an even more corrupt country. Like China, Cuba, Soviet, East gemany that system is almost extinct for a reason it doesn't work with humans only with robots

you mean state capitalism, not social democartic.  northern europe is social democratic, strong unions, a strong state, alot of regulations, a good social system, state holdings just in some parts of the economy(railroads, postal service, etc). 



0815user on 05 July 2015
palou said:
0815user said:
mai said:
0815user said:
countries debts are overrated in my opinion because unlike individuals no one can really force a country to pay them back. I mean what do you want to do? Invade them? And even if a county does default, basic needs towards the people will always be provided no matter how much debt they have.

 

The EU could very well kill off Greece economically, if they would want to. It would be stupid, of course, but the option to cut all new funding and trade relationships is a threat that can be made towards a country refusing to repay a debt.

But that would mean that greece (for not being able to pay creditors) and russia (for military aggression towards another country) would basically suffer the same sanctions. Unjustifiable and therefore not going to happen.



hansrob00 on 05 July 2015

They are going to have to print off their own money and there is now a high chance that they make a slow exit out of the European Union. I'm not so worried about the European Union because greece is small potatoes, but if a country like Spain starts having Greece size problems, then that may be a precursor for some bad times for Europe.