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Greece Defaults. What now?

Forums - Politics Discussion - Greece Defaults. What now?

DeusXmachina said:

I'm sure a lot of people will hate it if we leave the eurozone and that the situation will be bad for a long time but i believe we will eventually recover.


Of course you are going to eventually recover. What's the alternative? The question isn't whether or not you will recover, it's how bad will the long term effects of this defaulting will be. I'm very interested to find out.



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Qwark said:
routsounmanman said:

While Greece may not be as important or powerful as Britain, I think you're underestimating this:

1) It's not just about economy. Notice our position in the map? Our military / navy strength? Our relationship with Arabic / Slavic countries and Russia? 

2) It would create a precedence a member leaving the common currency. Try to assure the markets that Portugal won't be next.

EU has much more to lose that 300 billion debt and 200 billion GDP.


On your frist point the NAVO is bigger than Europe unless you want US, Canada, Japan, South Korea and Turkey on your bad side choosing Arab or Rusia isn't smart.

 

On your second point Portugal, Spain etc  aren't even near Greece in therms of corruption, debts etc. So I don't think there will be an enormous financial hit for Europe. Since you have to make an effort to get kicked out of EU.

 

So I think EU can cut off Greece without major problems.

1) You misunderstood me; I didn't mean us flocking to Russia / Arabic countries etc. I mean that we're the sole link to diplomacy with most of these countries. Essentially the only EU country that has any good relations with that part of the world.

2) I respect your opinion on this, but I don't agree. It's easy and convenient to place blame on Greece, and cover for the rest. Even Italy has striking similarities to Greece (Debt too, 130% of GDP, just where we started in 2009).



Qwark said:
MikeRox said:


Sadly this is where Greece's problems kick in. The logical thing, would be to reduce Greece's debt, and put the country on a sustainable path back to prosperity. However, Portugal and Ireland took their medicine without such concessions. More so though, if Greece is allowed haircuts on it's debts, Spain and Italy etc will start to demand the same.

There is also the fallout in Germany where the population seem to be incredibly reluctant to any kind of support for Greece. I suspect Angela Merkel would be more forgiving in terms, were it not such a vote loser in Germany.

Let's not forget UK which is probably even more reluctant against another hopeless investment, bringing the BRexit closer. Even if you erase all Greece it debts it's economic system and taxation system are corrupt to the core. The path back to prospeirity is the EU parlement completely taking completely over for 2 years and making radical changes aka transforming it in a northern European country, I doubt Greece is wanting that.


On the Greece front, the UK isn't so invested as it is. I think even in 2010 the UK Gov were refusing to put money in. So there is just about 10bn Euros in our commercial banks in Greece.

I don't think a BRexit is coming closer though.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.



Greece problem is that it always have had had budget deficit. It seams they always voted for the party who promised the most to the people. A country cant be sustainible if it always have budget deficit, but why the greeks always voted for budget deficit is beyond me.



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Psychotic said:
routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.

"democracy", "arent't fit to vote responsibly"

You sure know your stuff about democracy...



krippaz said:
Greece problem is that it always have had had budget deficit. It seams they always voted for the party who promised the most to the people. A country cant be sustainible if it always have budget deficit, but why the greeks always voted for budget deficit is beyond me.


I think Winston said it best

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

and

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

So many seem to think Greece is already at the bottom and things can't get worse, should they not find a deal with the EU they will find out how very wrong they are. long term a grexit would be good for them, but short term  (many years) they will experience a lot of what 3rd countries suffer every day where even essential items become a luxury.



Psychotic said:
routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.

 far left my ass... syriza is just not neoliberal they dont want state capitalism like the udssr had, or communism, they dont even want socialism.   they want a more social democratic system, thats not realy  problem, those system have the best results in the long run.



generic-user-1 said:
Psychotic said:
routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.

 far left my ass... syriza is just not neoliberal they dont want state capitalism like the udssr had, or communism, they dont even want socialism.   they want a more social democratic system, thats not realy  problem, those system have the best results in the long run.


That system will end in an even more corrupt country. Like China, Cuba, Soviet, East gemany that system is almost extinct for a reason it doesn't work with humans only with robots



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Qwark said:
generic-user-1 said:
Psychotic said:
routsounmanman said:


How is raising taxes helping to cure Greece's biggest problem (tax evasion and corruption)? I could even support a EU driven tax collection system, but not this.


I think Greece has bigger problems. Case in point: the extreme left is the ruling party. That can't end well. It never does.

The very fact that an anti-establishment leftist party can amass such power means the fathers of democracy aren't fit to vote responsibly.

 far left my ass... syriza is just not neoliberal they dont want state capitalism like the udssr had, or communism, they dont even want socialism.   they want a more social democratic system, thats not realy  problem, those system have the best results in the long run.


That system will end in an even more corrupt country. Like China, Cuba, Soviet, East gemany that system is almost extinct for a reason it doesn't work with humans only with robots

you mean state capitalism, not social democartic.  northern europe is social democratic, strong unions, a strong state, alot of regulations, a good social system, state holdings just in some parts of the economy(railroads, postal service, etc).