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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Without Playstation, would the industry be in another crisis?

JOKA_ said:
No, somebody else would have stepped in/up.


Like who? 3DO was a bust and Microsoft didnt set foot into console gaming until Sony became a threat.



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foxtail said:
Lawlight said:
Yes, it would. Don't forget that the reason that gaming is such a mainstream hobby now is because of the playstation. I think that if it didn't come along, gamers would have been a "basement"-only activity. Now, we see Jessie playing Rage in Breaking Bad, Kevin Spacey playing CoD in House of Cards or Adam Sandler playing Shadow of the Colossus in Reign over me.

Product placement isn't anything new, even Nintendo has done some in shows that are for an older audience.

Tony and AJ playing some Mario Kart 64 in the Sopranos.

Bill playing a round of Wii golf in the show True Blood. 

Lauren Holly tempts us with a Gameboy in Picket Fences.


He's right though. When Nintendo ran the industry the stigma of games being a kids toy was in the psyche back then. Sega was always the cool console, but when Playstation dropped in it became the console all age groups could enjoy hence the rise in popularity of gaming and the numbers of gamers growing worldwide. Sony was the brand that followed gamers into adulthood where Nintendo hadn't and generally would just hire to third party to do it for them so their first party could be focused on the kids.



This thread became a "Sony can do no right" any other company would have done better. That certainly explain why all other big companies failed before.

And the "Nintendo can do no wrong" like if Sony wasn't around Nintendo would do things different and would be Friends with 3rd parties. Its been 20 years and they still haven't learned how to do it even with Sony and Ms showing it.

And the "Sega would thrive"... Stop blaming others for the failures. This is like saying if Bill Gates wasn't billionaire I could be. Sega was screwing up already during Genesis with the add-ons and Sony can't be responsible for the bad decisions they made. I love Sega and would love they staying around but they burned themselves.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

foxtail said:
Lawlight said:
Yes, it would. Don't forget that the reason that gaming is such a mainstream hobby now is because of the playstation. I think that if it didn't come along, gamers would have been a "basement"-only activity. Now, we see Jessie playing Rage in Breaking Bad, Kevin Spacey playing CoD in House of Cards or Adam Sandler playing Shadow of the Colossus in Reign over me.

Product placement isn't anything new, even Nintendo has done some in shows that are for an older audience.

Tony and AJ playing some Mario Kart 64 in the Sopranos.

Bill playing a round of Wii golf in the show True Blood. 

Lauren Holly tempts us with a Gameboy in Picket Fences.

Notice how 2 of those involve kids. That's what gaming was before - something for kids.

As for Bill in True Blood, I also notice that you omitted the part where it's actually a grandma who's originally playing the Wii and Bill sees it. Which makes sense as a large part of the Wii audience were casuals including more mature people.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
zorg1000 said:

I'm not sure exactly what ur asking in that first sentence, could u rephrase it or elaborate please

And I'm also not sure what ur getting at with the rest of the post, I already gave Sony credit for greatly expanding the console market outside of America/Japan. Without them it's entirely possible home consoles would never have caught on like they did in Europe and developing countries, with handhelds & home computers being the preferred choice instead.


I am talking about the rate of change from one generation to the next as in the overall sales opposed (the escalation) to the impact individually from Sony (in said generation). How many consoles were sold overall and individually between the existing companies before Sony arrived? How how did the overall console industry grow since they stepped in? That is how you see their true impact. If it continues to grow it means their impact was positive. With Sony...you'll find that the industry actually grew because they got people who were interested in multimedia to meld themselves into gaming. The got a two in one deal. Microsoft took over for Sega essentially and essentially halved what Sony built. If you look up the sales from generation to generation you'll find this is somewhat accurate.

North American console sales by generation

2nd generation

Atari 2600-24 million

3rd generation

NES-33 million, 37% increase

4th generation

SNES+Genesis-45 million, 36% increase

5th generation

PS1+N64-60 million, 33% increase

6th generation

PS2+XB+GC-80 million, 33% increase

U can add a few million to each of those generations when u factor in all the individual low selling consoles that appeared. But what u see here is that the North American console market was showing consistent growth, about 35% in each generation from the 2nd to 6th generation.

People credit Playstation for making gaming popular among adults, I don't believe that's true at all, it would naturally have happened with or without them. Why do I believe this?

If u were a young kid who grew up playing Atari or NES, how old would u be in the mid-90s? Late teens/early 20s. It's just natural that as kids who grew up and became adults, they would want to play more adult focused games.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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Sharu said:
In my opinion, even WITH the Playstation 4 success industry will be in a deep crysis soon.

I agree. The Videogame market is not in crysis, it´s just changing. Consoles sales will probably be in crysis (if they aren´t already), after all, overall console sales have been down ever year since 2009.



DonFerrari said:
This thread became a "Sony can do no right" any other company would have done better. That certainly explain why all other big companies failed before.

And the "Nintendo can do no wrong" like if Sony wasn't around Nintendo would do things different and would be Friends with 3rd parties. Its been 20 years and they still haven't learned how to do it even with Sony and Ms showing it.

And the "Sega would thrive"... Stop blaming others for the failures. This is like saying if Bill Gates wasn't billionaire I could be. Sega was screwing up already during Genesis with the add-ons and Sony can't be responsible for the bad decisions they made. I love Sega and would love they staying around but they burned themselves.

No, I don't think that's the case at all.  The basis of the thread is "Sony is the only company that could have kept the video game industry alive" which is what myself and many of the other posters are disputing (see Zorg1000's breakdown of growth in NA by generation).  Everyone is pointing out how Microsoft wouldn't be in the market without Sony entering first.  Well, why is Sony in the market?  Because Nintendo asked them to develop the PlayStation in the first place, which would have been their 1st disk based platform.  Nintendo torpedoed their own deal, and Sony rather than scrap the whole project when they already had a ready to go console, released it anyway.  You are playing a "What If?" game, and as I have stated before, in a "What If?" game, you can't say "this is the ONLY way it could have happened".  That's incomprehensibly narrow-minded.  Nobody is blaming Sony for Sega's failure.  But can you really say for 100% fact that Sony's arrival into the market (direct result of Nintendo, much like Germany delivering Lenin on a train to Russia to topple the tsar turned out to create a larger nemesis for them later) was a contributing factor in Sega's demise?  Why can't you accept "What If?" scenarios in that spectrum where Sega doesn't feel a need to rush the Sega Saturn to market, and doesn't have a $100 cheaper also disk-based system to compete with?  Look at Sony's early advertising campaign with Crash Bandicoot.  It's directly ripped from Sega's attack ads against Nintendo that were helping Sega gain marketshare during the Genesis' ("Genesis does what Nintendon't") lifetime.  Of course Sega led to it's own downfall the same way Atari led to it's own demise.  Only, Atari collapsed the entire industry, but a Sega collapse regardless of Sony being present or not wouldn't have had that effect. 

You can't pose a "What If?" question and refuse to accept scenarios that you don't like.  I can't say for a fact that Sega, or a Nintendo disk-based console in the absence of Sony in the market would have thrived to level of the PlayStation brand anymore than you can say for a fact that no company except for Sony could have done that.  It's all answers to a fictional question.  All the answers will be fictional.  And that means, there can't only be 1 correct answer.

By the way, your analogy at the end is ridiculous.  It would be more like saying if Bill Gates didn't exist, NO ONE else could have created a Microsoft-type company.  For example, Guglielmo Marconi is credited by many to have invented radio.  But, he used 17 of Nikola Tesla's patents to do so.  So without Marconi (who was backed by Thomas Edison in America), Tesla was already making huge strides in this field (in fact, he was ready to transmit a signal across a 50 mile span 6 years before Marconi transmitted his trans-atlantic signal if not for the fire that consumed his laboratory in 1895).  It all goes to my point that you can't say, with the 100% certainty that you guys are claiming, this person/corporation did this and he/she/they are the only ones who ever could have possibly done so. 



Mr Puggsly said:
Materia-Blade said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Hey, lets not get into a debate about what a true gamer is.

I'm just gonna point out its evident a vast majority of console gamers prefer playing games on a gamepad. The core gamers Wii had early on jumped ship. Also, the Wii has faded into obscurity more quickly than its competitors inspite of superior console sales. Maybe Wii didn't live up to the "dream" and that is part of the reason why Wii U is a failure.

"a vast majority of console gamers prefer playing games on a gamepad."

what do you think the wii mote + nunchuck is?

"The core gamers Wii had early on jumped ship"

Absolutely wrong. software sales prove it.

"Also, the Wii has faded into obscurity more quickly than its competitors inspite of superior console sales"

wii stopped selling when it stopped getting new releases. and there's no point in ignoring the slow start of the competitors.

The Wiimote + Nunchuck not a standard gamepad. That's why the Wii pro controller is a thing.

The software sales show Wii had massive decline of core software sales. Wii did a pretty good job at moving core IPs early on but it didn't last.

Wii stopped getting new releases because software sales were doing poor outside of casual and 1st party stuff. Hence, support died as the audience abandon ship and they didn't return to Wii U.

You're attempting to rewrite history to defend the Wii. I'm sure most people will agree with me because I'm spittin facts.

Wiimote + nunchuck is a gamepad with some buttons less. still a gamepad, wich was your original point.

Software sales remained high while software kept releasing. 2010 had many 1st and 3rd party releases and they all sold very well. 2011 had a decline because there was barely any new software for it.

You're spitting anything but facts.



DonFerrari said:
This thread became a "Sony can do no right" any other company would have done better. That certainly explain why all other big companies failed before.

And the "Nintendo can do no wrong" like if Sony wasn't around Nintendo would do things different and would be Friends with 3rd parties. Its been 20 years and they still haven't learned how to do it even with Sony and Ms showing it.

And the "Sega would thrive"... Stop blaming others for the failures. This is like saying if Bill Gates wasn't billionaire I could be. Sega was screwing up already during Genesis with the add-ons and Sony can't be responsible for the bad decisions they made. I love Sega and would love they staying around but they burned themselves.

sony and ms only show the worst option possible about 3rd party relations.



Lawlight said:
foxtail said:
Lawlight said:
Yes, it would. Don't forget that the reason that gaming is such a mainstream hobby now is because of the playstation. I think that if it didn't come along, gamers would have been a "basement"-only activity. Now, we see Jessie playing Rage in Breaking Bad, Kevin Spacey playing CoD in House of Cards or Adam Sandler playing Shadow of the Colossus in Reign over me.

Product placement isn't anything new, even Nintendo has done some in shows that are for an older audience.

Tony and AJ playing some Mario Kart 64 in the Sopranos.

Bill playing a round of Wii golf in the show True Blood. 

Lauren Holly tempts us with a Gameboy in Picket Fences.

Notice how 2 of those involve kids. That's what gaming was before - something for kids.

As for Bill in True Blood, I also notice that you omitted the part where it's actually a grandma who's originally playing the Wii and Bill sees it. Which makes sense as a large part of the Wii audience were casuals including more mature people.

There is also an adult in both those 2 scenes too, and those shows were meant for adults.  Something for everyone (1st scene targets Families, 2nd scene targets Adults, 3rd scene targets Teens)

The Wii made several appearances on True Blood, the episode where Bill plays golf is different than the episode you're talking about where the crazy old lady plays Dead Space.  In this episode Bill plays golf alone, it was just Nintendo being played by a regular adult.