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Forums - Politics Discussion - Vaccination mediatic blitz

curl-6 said:

Doesn't necessarily mean the two are linked though.

 

I'm fairly certain the last one has an accurate correlation. :P

But yeah, Autism has become a lot more studied and well-known so as we learn more we can accurately diagnose people with autism, which is why the rates have gone up so high recently.



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RCTjunkie said:
curl-6 said:

Doesn't necessarily mean the two are linked though.

 

I'm fairly certain the last one has an accurate correlation. :P

But yeah, Autism has become a lot more studied and well-known so as we learn more we can accurately diagnose people with autism, which is why the rates have gone up so high recently.

Hmmm....I wonder how it does against the Bradford Hill criteria.....

  1. Strength: A small association does not mean that there is not a causal effect, though the larger the association, the more likely that it is causal.[1]
  2. Consistency: Consistent findings observed by different persons in different places with different samples strengthens the likelihood of an effect.[1]
  3. Specificity: Causation is likely if a very specific population at a specific site and disease with no other likely explanation. The more specific an association between a factor and an effect is, the bigger the probability of a causal relationship.[1]
  4. Temporality: The effect has to occur after the cause (and if there is an expected delay between the cause and expected effect, then the effect must occur after that delay).[1]
  5. Biological gradient: Greater exposure should generally lead to greater incidence of the effect. However, in some cases, the mere presence of the factor can trigger the effect. In other cases, an inverse proportion is observed: greater exposure leads to lower incidence.[1]
  6. Plausibility: A plausible mechanism between cause and effect is helpful (but Hill noted that knowledge of the mechanism is limited by current knowledge).[1]
  7. Coherence: Coherence between epidemiological and laboratory findings increases the likelihood of an effect. However, Hill noted that "... lack of such [laboratory] evidence cannot nullify the epidemiological effect on associations".[1]
  8. Experiment: "Occasionally it is possible to appeal to experimental evidence".[1]
  9. Analogy: The effect of similar factors may be considered.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford_Hill_criteria



The thing about the anti-vax crowd is that they're mostly too young to remember a time before widespread vaccination.

They never had to live in a world where diseases like polio were rampant, and children suffered and died in droves even in industrialised countries.

 

 

RCTjunkie said:
curl-6 said:

Doesn't necessarily mean the two are linked though.

 

I'm fairly certain the last one has an accurate correlation. :P

XD Lucky I wasn't drinking anything when I read this...



LOL Anti-Vaccer morons. You people should be rounded up and put in your own disease-filled hole to rot.

User moderated for this post -RavenXtra



This is nice fun clip about the topic:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/g1lev1/an-outbreak-of-liberal-idiocy

This one too:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/5t2dw1/les-measlesrables



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Aura7541 said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

You're mistaking genetic modification for natural hybrids. The two are not the same.  Splicing together genes from different organism in a lab (fish cells/tomato) is quite different from the natural result of cross pollination. The example you are using is flawed and a false talking point made to try and draw inaccurate examples between the two. One has its limitations in nature vs modifying that which could never naturally occur. 

The formulation of a vitamin can result in one brand having a lesser quality when it comes to absorbtion than another. The point I am trying to make is that increasing the vitamin content may not necessarily make it more nutritional. The method that is used to increase the vitamin may not result in the same potency found in the natural version of the fruit/vegetable. This is due to the vitamin no longer being the same molecule as it has been modified. The fruit/vitamin would no longer have the same molecular structure.

You're showing that you know very little about genetic modification. The term is very self-explanatory. You modify the genome of a plant or animal. How do you do that? You can do it in the lab through various means such as gene knockouts to remove deleterious traits or horizontal transmission to add beneficial traits such as drought resistance. When you add a gene, the RNA polymerase transcribes that gene and the ribosomes translate the protein that grants the plant or animal that beneficial trait.

You can also do it by crossing two individuals in which each parent has a specific advantageous trait. Let's say these traits are dominant and are on different loci. Sweet fruit is on loci A and large fruit is on loci B. Parent #1 has sweet, but small fruit and is homozygous dominant for the sweetness, so its genotype is AA bb. Parent #2 has large, but bitter fruit and is homozygous for large fruit, so its genotype is aa BB. You cross these individuals together and their progeny will all be Aa Bb. Because both loci have dominant alleles, the offspring have both sweet and large fruit.

Your last paragraph also shows how little you understand chemistry. Nomenclature of chemical compounds is determined by what strucutural types (e.g. double C=C bonds, rings, disulfide bridge, etc) and orientation (e.g. trans, cis, L-, R-, etc) they have. If a "vitamin" is an entirely different molecule, then it is no longer a vitamin. A "lower quality" vitamin supplement is lower quality not because of the vitamins. It's lower quality because of the lower concentration or shoddy synthesis of the supplements.

I think you're being turned off by the fact that genetic modification is sometimes done in the lab. When you hear the word "lab", you're probably imagining a bunch of white coats in opaque safety goggles injecting mysterious blue liquid into a tomato. The negative connotation is what makes you against GMOs. But here's the fact: nearly everything we eat is genetically modified. If you want to eat "naturally", then good luck.

Copying and pasting the definition does not add any credibility to you argument.  I mean, do not insult my intelligence by pasting a few paragraphs of filler as not only are you wasting my time but your own. I know what genetic modification is or else I wouldn't be debating the subject. Monsanto talking points that"we've been eating GMOs for thousands of years" is not only idiotic but inaccurate.

Cross polination whether through nature or a controlled method to create a Hybrid seed is entirely different than splicing genes to enhance said fruit or vegtable.They are not the same in any way, shape or form. Trying to draw imaginary lines between the two is not only absurd bit misleading. 

I accidentally stated molecule. I'm well aware it would no longer be that vitamin,my bad. 

Lower quality would not be due to lower concentration. You can have the same level of concentration in the same vitamin and still have one better than the other. The methods of manufauring play a large role.

I'm not being turned off by the fact that it is created in a lab. Using adhominems does not make your argument valid. Everything we eat is not genetically modified in the manner that you would believe. To claim that shows a true lack of understanding. 



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

Nirvana_Nut85 said:
Aura7541 said:

-SNIP-

Copying and pasting the definition does not add any credibility to you argument.  I mean, do not insult my intelligence by pasting a few paragraphs of filler as not only are you wasting my time but your own. I know what genetic modification is or else I wouldn't be debating the subject. Monsanto talking points that"we've been eating GMOs for thousands of years" is not only idiotic but inaccurate.

Actually, everything I said was through my own words. I don't need to copy and paste because I properly learned the science or in this case, the sciences since multiple disciplines were involved (e.g. botany, agriculture, systematics, chemistry, molecular bio, etc.)

But hey, go ahead dismiss my arguments by assuming I "copy and paste" definitions. I shall not participate in this discussion anymore since you are unwilling to listen and play the accusation game. Good bye.



morenoingrato said:

This is nice fun clip about the topic:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/g1lev1/an-outbreak-of-liberal-idiocy

This one too:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/5t2dw1/les-measlesrables

Funny, but scary at the same time. The conlusion of the first video made me rather depressed despite the humor.



sundin13 said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

This has not been peer reviewed. I asked to provide a thorough peer reviewed study. Until then it is just false claims. An interesting article I found details why the study provided was heavily flawed.

http://news.sciencemag.org/asiapacific/2013/09/golden-rice-not-so-golden-tufts


The only issues brought up are ethics issues so they are irrelevant here...

Once again, this is a fundamental principle of Genetic Modification. There is no debate. Look at what the WHO says about GMOs, look at what the FDA says about GMOs...there is a concensus that this is physically possible. Once again, I am not speaking about any specific GMOs, I am talking about the science behind it. Arguing this point just shows that you don't understand the science.

I understand science quite well. I will repeat again. Independant peer reviewed study showing the apparent extra vitamins that have been added do add nutritional value and are being absorbed. Until then it's simply PR.



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

Captain_Tom said:

LOL Anti-Vaccer morons. You people should be rounded up and put in your own disease-filled hole to rot.

User moderated for this post -RavenXtra


You got moderated for speaking the truth... The man is in with the anti-vaxxers!! (;