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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Dromble: Dan Adelman Discusses Nintendo’s Culture, Third Parties, VC & More

And that's why I never supported the "Fire Iwata!" movement. Getting rid of one guy won't solve anything when you have that kind of corporate structure. It's harsh perhaps but someone at Nintendo needs to take one for the team and "get rid of" murder all of the senile old farts who are holding the company back.



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Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:
st0pnsw0p said:
Interesting interview, but I strongly disagree with the whole "3rd parties can't compete" theory. I stand by my explanation that Nintendo's consoles are simply aimed at a demographic that isn't very interested in 3rd parties' games.


It's not necessarily that the demographic isn't interested in 3rd party games, they just aren't interested in the AAA blockbuster style games like Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Assassin's Creed and other games that appeal to a similar demographic.

Games that have a similar appeal as Nintendo first party titles seem to sell accordingly. Rayman, Lego games, Skylanders, Disney Infinity, Just Dance do pretty well on Wii U. 3rd parties need to see what demographics are on each console and put games on them accordingly. Expecting a console with a strong kid demographic to buy M-rated games in droves doesn't make sense.


Yeah third parties do actually support the Wii/Wii U fairly well with the style of games Nintendo makes themselves (and thus define the platform). They don't bring the hyperviolent action/adventure games but those are honestly better suited to the demographics that Sony/MS market themselves (almost 100%) to. 

If I was running a business and making a violent action game with a big budget, as much I like Nintendo personally, from a business POV, Nintendo platforms would not be a priority for me either. Business is not about elementary school friendships, you gotta go where the money is. 

Yep pretty much, but I think this makes 3rd parties think only kids/cartoony games can sell well on Nintendo devices despite there being a large middle ground between kid games and M-rated games.

If a 3rd party developer were to make a good/polished game with similar gameplay mechanics as Zelda (Souls/Darksiders are too violent/graphic), it could sell well. Something that's not overly child-friendly but not overly violent/graphic, something with an E10+ or Teen rating.

For example, if the Arkham games were just toned back a little bit so that they were acceptable for the 8-12 year demographic, I think they could sell well. The ones on Wii U were both held back sales wise by being a late port and a prequel that wasn't as critically acclaimed which saw a large decline in sales on all platforms.  So a Batman game with the gameplay of Arkham but toned back a bit and not a late port could sell pretty decently on a Nintendo console.

That or like u said before, if Nintendo got exclusive rights to make Avengers games could sell well also.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

forest-spirit said:

And that's why I never supported the "Fire Iwata!" movement. Getting rid of one guy won't solve anything when you have that kind of corporate structure. It's harsh perhaps but someone at Nintendo needs to take one for the team and "get rid of" murder all of the senile old farts who are holding the company back.

They simply are never going to be able to overcome their issues because their corporate structure is such that they can't get out of ruts once they fall into one. 

 It would be far better if the issue really was centrally Iwata (though no doubt he is part of the issue, it's just that there are 10 other people at Nintendo also at fault). Then at least by getting rid of him you could see substantial change, but if the corporate culture is rotten to its core ... that isn't fixable. 

In a way though then what's happening to Nintendo now is pretty much 100% predictable. 



So in the end

That goes for Nintendo and third parties.



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Soundwave said:
forest-spirit said:

And that's why I never supported the "Fire Iwata!" movement. Getting rid of one guy won't solve anything when you have that kind of corporate structure. It's harsh perhaps but someone at Nintendo needs to take one for the team and "get rid of" murder all of the senile old farts who are holding the company back.

They simply are never going to be able to overcome their issues because their corporate structure is such that they can't get out of ruts once they fall into one. 

 It would be far better if the issue really was centrally Iwata (though no doubt he is part of the issue, it's just that there are 10 other people at Nintendo also at fault). Then at least by getting rid of him you could see substantial change, but if the corporate culture is rotten to its core ... that isn't fixable. 

In a way though then what's happening to Nintendo now is pretty much 100% predictable. 

Nintendo started in the 19th century, they're more adaptable than any other company in the gaming industry. What will happen to Sony and Microsoft is more predictable to me than what will happen to Nintendo.



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Samus Aran said:
Soundwave said:
forest-spirit said:

And that's why I never supported the "Fire Iwata!" movement. Getting rid of one guy won't solve anything when you have that kind of corporate structure. It's harsh perhaps but someone at Nintendo needs to take one for the team and "get rid of" murder all of the senile old farts who are holding the company back.

They simply are never going to be able to overcome their issues because their corporate structure is such that they can't get out of ruts once they fall into one. 

 It would be far better if the issue really was centrally Iwata (though no doubt he is part of the issue, it's just that there are 10 other people at Nintendo also at fault). Then at least by getting rid of him you could see substantial change, but if the corporate culture is rotten to its core ... that isn't fixable. 

In a way though then what's happening to Nintendo now is pretty much 100% predictable. 

Nintendo started in the 19th century, they're more adaptable than any other company in the gaming industry. What will happen to Sony and Microsoft is more predictable to me than what will happen to Nintendo.


Eh, that's your opinion, but just because Nintendo is an old company doesn't mean they have some magic formula that gives them some magic insight into things. 

If it did they wouldn't be in the mess they're in now to begin with. 

Personally I think the game business has changed too much for them to keep up with and they are far too conservative/stubborn to shift with it. 

Compare Microsoft's reaction and how much work they have done to get the XBox One back on track to Nintendo's response with the Wii U. Speaks volumes. 

Nintendo is a terrific company in terms of making great games, but their management blows. 

The other thing I would add is I think their corporate structure that they have doesn't really work without a Yamauchi type who has the flexibility to make decisions basically on his own (seems like Iwata does not have that ability). As such the company will always get bogged down in politcal red tape when trying to make big decisions about change. Again it's systemic. 



Great read. Now more than ever Nintendo needs a strong western branch that can offer some western games, services, features and build relations with third parties. Not likely to happen, but it is so very much needed. It's a sin, because the games Nintendo makes are still outstanding.

I wouldn't blame Miyamoto for the slow adaptation to CD-drives. That was more circumstance than anything else. Poor decision and turn of events? Absolutely, but I don't think it was someone like Miyamoto saying no way so much as it was the failed deal with Sony meaning Nintendo had to adapt the strengths of cartridge and then extol its virtues.

I've said many times before, Nintendo's direction is not just Iwata, or Miyamoto, or any one individual, but a team of individuals that were picked to maintain the culture and principles that Nintendo operates under. Their system isn't all bad, they just really need to embrace some changes in the industry.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Great read. Now more than ever Nintendo needs a strong western branch that can offer some western games, services, features and build relations with third parties. Not likely to happen, but it is so very much needed. It's a sin, because the games Nintendo makes are still outstanding.

I wouldn't blame Miyamoto for the slow adaptation to CD-drives. That was more circumstance than anything else. Poor decision and turn of events? Absolutely, but I don't think it was someone like Miyamoto saying no way so much as it was the failed deal with Sony meaning Nintendo had to adapt the strengths of cartridge and then extol its virtues.

I've said many times before, Nintendo's direction is not just Iwata, or Miyamoto, or any one individual, but a team of individuals that were picked to maintain the culture and principles that Nintendo operates under. Their system isn't all bad, they just really need to embrace some changes in the industry.


None of these things you're asking for will ever happen though. And it makes perfect sense as to why. 

When Nintendo fans constantly say "why doesn't Nintendo do X/Y/Z" they just can't do it. They are incapable because of their very structure of who they are. 

People have been asking for what you're asking for for like 15 years now. "Change with the times, embrace Western development, expand, market better" etc. etc. It's not a coincidence that it hasn't happened. 

It's also I think deeply rooted in Japanese business culture, of which Adelman really sheds some great light on. Nintendo isn't just a conservative Japanese company, they are hyper-conservative even by Japanese standards. I guess something about being a Kyoto company does that. 



Very interesting article indeed! And I can't really disagree with anything he says. It's a sad situation that old traditions and hierarchy is what's aching Nintendo.



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Can you imagine a Nintendo that wasn't run in such a terrible, inefficient, creatively-stifling way? As it is, they get by and sometimes strike big. But if they had more freedom... Dang.



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