Soriku said:
a. Religion isn't entirely bad, but I would say it's done more harm than good (just the essence of it spreading a mass delusion is a big issue).
b. We're going to differ on this, because I see one as fact and one as bullshit. I'm certainly not going to be putting science and scripture (whichever religious scripture it is --- people get too caught up in a dichotomy where either science is right or their specific religion is) on the same level. Religion hardly scrapes the bottom. You can go around thinking that the Earth is 6000 years old or whatever, but if you bring it up (I'm not running around trying to get into an argument or anything), and you have nothing but faith to validate your beliefs, I'm going to seriously question you. Faith does not trump evidence. I'm not going to call you stupid or anything though. This isn't the first religious thread on here, and it's not going to be the last, but I haven't told anyone that they're an idiot.
Also on the Tower of Babel, I meant the whole formation languages part of the story. The Tower of Babel probably does exist in some form, as an unfinished tower in Babylon for the god Marduk. This is what I meant earlier about some stories probably having a kernel of truth, even if most of it is a fabrication. I actually heard the Tower of Babel story referred to as obvously man made satire as well. Either way, it's not a literally true story.
On faith, the problem with this "test" is that you'll receive the worst possible punishment if you fail. The Bible makes it pretty clear that the only way to "the Father" is through Jesus. The Bible also makes it clear that hell is a wider path to take. There are only ~2 billion Christians out there. Does this mean 5+ billion people are going to fail the test and be sent to hell? So not only is God giving us nothing but faith to work with, but he's going to punish us greatly if we don't pass, even if we have legitimate reasons to think it's all made up. So this test sucks quite frankly.
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a. I don't disagree. I dislike organized religion, because it is just religion filtered through all the gunk of human perception and ignorance and sin and then regurgitated. That is one of the reasons I think that you should define your own religion instead of blindly following.
b. I once again don't disagree with you. In an earlier comment I said that if you start using religion as evidence against science, I will call BS, because that doesn't make sense. They are not on the same level, but as such, they don't really contradict each other as much as you think. I personally believe that much of the Bible is metaphor and another bunch of it is a human interpretation of actual events.
Using faith as a weapon against science is just stupid, because faith doesn't (generally) work as a predictive measure. A lot of the work that religious folk tend to argue is things like evolution and the age of the earth, but the theory of evolution can be used to explain the past AND predict the future. Creationism may explain the past to some, but it does not predict the future.
However, the problem comes when people try to challenge others faith with science saying "science says x so your religion is wrong". That is just the wrong way to go about things. You shouldn't try to attack someones faith and replace it with your own, you should ask them to question their own faith. If they continue to believe, then their faith comes out stronger than ever (I say that if you can't argue your position, your opinion holds no weight), if not, well thats fine too. I just see so many people using science as a weapon against religion and its just strange to me.
c (Tower of Babel). I am a Biologist, not an archeologist, so I can't really argue about the Tower of Babel with too much conviction, but I will say again, that much of the Bible is metaphor, and another large chunk of it is filtered through the eyes of a human in my opinion.
d (Hell). Hell is fundamentally the lack of god and the absence of heaven/salvation. The view of an eternity of torture is one that I personally deny, although I am in the minority on this. I also do not think that what religion you are determines whether you will go to heaven or hell....still a minority though. However, going through the bible, you will see many instances where something is said that can be interpreted in multiple ways, or even areas of contradiction (which some may use to refute the bible, but as I said, the bible is largely passed through humans who are inherently flawed (there is some that is the direct word of god though)), and I choose to interpret it in the way that I believe makes the most logical sense. Also, there is the fact that God's expectations of us have already largely changed (most western religions understand that the old testament was what God expected of those people at that time, and much of it does not still apply to us.
Religion is a very personal thing and the bible is open for interpretation. While many may not like that, oh well...thats the way it is. If that harms your ability to believe, so be it.
