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Get some 6 year olds to play games like that and review them not some Zelda , Halo loving hippy.

When my son was 6/7/8 he loved the blocky Pc game Lego builder and other similar games even though to me they were so boring.

Reviewers should unerstand that their criteria for a fun game isn't necessarily the same as everyone elses, especially when reviewing a game not aimed at them!



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Hawk said:

Oh, and wait. I'd consider a score of 3.9 and below shovelware myself, wouldn't you?

PS1: 95 games scored 3.9 or below
PS2: 89 games scored 3.9 or below
Wii: 34 games scored 3.9 or below (excluding VC games)


 Yep, 34 games below 3.9 in less than a year in a half.  Thats quite a bit.

360 is at 10

Ps3 is at 7

DS is at 59 



EMULATION is the past.....NOW.......B_E_L_I_E_V_E

 

 


darklich13 said:
Hawk said:

Oh, and wait. I'd consider a score of 3.9 and below shovelware myself, wouldn't you?

PS1: 95 games scored 3.9 or below
PS2: 89 games scored 3.9 or below
Wii: 34 games scored 3.9 or below (excluding VC games)


Yep, 34 games below 3.9 in less than a year in a half. Thats quite a bit.


 I do give you that.  There is no denying that.  But I am curious, if most shovelware on the leading system comes out while it's young.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

I would say at the end you see more shovelware for all systems. Look at all the crap that came out at the end of the PS1. Some of the worst games ever. Don't get me wrong, I not trying to hate on the Wii. I really love Nintendo and their games. But I think they really have a problem with 3rd party. Something I think they need to fix quickly.



EMULATION is the past.....NOW.......B_E_L_I_E_V_E

 

 


darklich13 said:
Hawk said:

Oh, and wait. I'd consider a score of 3.9 and below shovelware myself, wouldn't you?

PS1: 95 games scored 3.9 or below
PS2: 89 games scored 3.9 or below
Wii: 34 games scored 3.9 or below (excluding VC games)


Yep, 34 games below 3.9 in less than a year in a half. Thats quite a bit.

360 is at 10

Ps3 is at 7

DS is at 59


I'm talking about the leading consoles in history here.  And more specifically, the shift in 3rd party support.  So, PS1 being the last shift in major 3rd party support.

I did a bit more research. And the amount of games under 3.9 on each system in the first 15 months is:

PS1: 19 games
PS2: 9 games
Wii: 34 games

Which you are right. A lot of shovelware on Wii. But. Lets add on number of consoles sold in the first 15 months. And number of shovelware games made per million in that time.

PS1: 2 million units. 8.5 shovelware games/mill in the first 15 months
PS2: 10 million units. .9 shovelware games/mill in the first 15 months
Wii: 21 million units. 1.6 shovelware games/mill in the first 15 months

Damn. Looks like the PS1 should've never gone anywhere huh? Shovelware is so damaging to a system. Or, in seriousness, shovelware is a result of success and the shift of 3rd party support.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

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Hawk said:
darklich13 said:
Hawk said:

Oh, and wait. I'd consider a score of 3.9 and below shovelware myself, wouldn't you?

PS1: 95 games scored 3.9 or below
PS2: 89 games scored 3.9 or below
Wii: 34 games scored 3.9 or below (excluding VC games)


Yep, 34 games below 3.9 in less than a year in a half. Thats quite a bit.

360 is at 10

Ps3 is at 7

DS is at 59


I'm talking about the leading consoles in history here.  And more specifically, the shift in 3rd party support.  So, PS1 being the last shift in major 3rd party support.

I did a bit more research. And the amount of games under 3.9 on each system in the first 15 months is:

PS1: 19 games
PS2: 9 games
Wii: 34 games

Which you are right. A lot of shovelware on Wii. But. Lets add on number of consoles sold in the first 15 months. And number of shovelware games made per million in that time.

PS1: 2 million units. 8.5 shovelware games/mill in the first 15 months
PS2: 10 million units. .9 shovelware games/mill in the first 15 months
Wii: 21 million units. 1.6 shovelware games/mill in the first 15 months

Damn. Looks like the PS1 should've never gone anywhere huh? Shovelware is so damaging to a system. Or, in seriousness, shovelware is a result of success and the shift of 3rd party support.


 

Okay, first of all, we're in a new generation now, games are selling more and more so the increase is somewhat expected in that sense.  Also, your comparing a veteran company like Nintendo to the then fledgling PS brand, the circumastances are a little different.  That comparison is crap, the number of units you sell shouldn't allow you to make crap at a record setting pace.  The difference in sales is no excuse for shit games.  People are trying to make a quick buck off Ninty at a ridiculous pace.  Only the first comparison using the time frame is a good one for that shows the amount of crap the Wii has on it at this point in it's life.  I shudder to think about the amount of shovelware on this system if it keeps up like this. 

I retract my statement...



I am WEEzY. You can suck my Nintendo loving BALLS!

 

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darklich13 said:
@RolStoppable

If CD vs. cartridge were the biggest reason why the PS1 won vs. the N64, then explain the Saturn.

PS1 was easier to program and was more powerful in the 3D department then the Saturn. Plus throw in the whole 32X and SEGACD thing and alot of consumers lost faith in Sega. You said that "During the first year the Playstation and Saturn sold almost equally" and this is true. But that was before FFVII was released. That game alone sold millions of PS1's.

Don't forget that Square was making the game for the N64 before jumping ship to Sony. I believe that if FFVII and the rest of the classic Square library made it to the N64 and not the PS1, the N64 would have dominated.


You seem to base the PS1's success on the release of FFVII (ports of NES and SNES games were hardly a reason for anyone to own a PS1). Remember, the PS1 outsold the N64 by 3:1 over its whole lifetime, a difference of about 70m consoles. No single game alone accounts for the success of a console and let's not forget that the N64 had games that sold more than FFVII. The PS1 had already won before FFVII was released.

If you believe that FFVII was the reason why the PS1 succeded, do you also think that FFXIII is going to turn around the fortunes this generation?

Other things to think about: Why was the Saturn destroyed by the N64, if CDs were so superior? Why did the company with the weakest 1st party games win the 5th generation by a landslide? How come that 3rd parties abandoned Nintendo and Sega long before the Playstation was in an absolute dominant position?

Really, the change of the business model was by far the biggest factor back then in the 5th generation. Nintendo and Sega were left behind with their old policies, while Sony allowed everyone to make as many games as they wanted. This resulted in a huge library with a lot of variety and gamers flocked to the Playstation because there were so many games to choose from.

It didn't matter that the majority of the games were bad as long as there were enough good games. The same was true for the PS2 and the same will be true for the Wii. A console is only in trouble when there aren't enough good games. Now I should quantify how much is enough: I say that ten good games per year is enough for the majority of gamers, most gamers buy less than 10 games per year.



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"If you believe that FFVII was the reason why the PS1 succeded, do you also think that FFXIII is going to turn around the fortunes this generation?"

No way. It a totally different set of circumstances.

I really think that Nintendo droped the ball with the N64. It should of been a CD based system. But thanks to the their venture with the CD-I, Nintendo had cold feet with the CD technology and stuck with cartridge. Square created the tech-demo on some SGI machines gearing it toward the N64. What they found out was that they could not do what they wanted with the N64 because of it's cartridge size constrants. Could you imagine if the entire Square library from PS1 was on the N64. I'm sorry, but that would have been huge.

The same could be said toward other developers. Producing a cartridge game costs more and limited what you could do.

You said "It didn't matter that the majority of the games were bad as long as there were enough good games. The same was true for the PS2 and the same will be true for the Wii. A console is only in trouble when there aren't enough good games."

Well, the PS1 and the PS2 had excellent 3rd party support. The Wii does not. All you have to do is just look at the scores. Will the Wii get better 3rd party support? Mabey, but as of right now there aren't any 3rd party games that look up to that task. I would say the Wii might be in trouble if the market is flooded with shit games. Beyond the always good Nintendo games, does a casual gamer know which game is good and which game is bad.



EMULATION is the past.....NOW.......B_E_L_I_E_V_E

 

 


darklich13 said:

 Yep, 34 games below 3.9 in less than a year in a half.  Thats quite a bit.

360 is at 10

Ps3 is at 7

DS is at 59 


I think you essentially disproved your own argument here. According to this ranking system, the DS has far more shovelware than the 360 or PS3. Yet in terms of sales... well, do I even need to say anything? The DS is the best-selling video game platform of all time, console or handheld. Clearly the presence of shovelware did nothing to hurt it; almost certainly the opposite, to be honest.

And without jumping into a (very) old argument, Rol is correct on the 5th generation console war. Sony's opening up of their platform to unlimited third party development is the primary reason why they were successful. I believe that this has been Sony's greatest innovation in the gaming industry, much more so than any games they've developed.



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End of 2008 totals: Wii 42m, 360 24m, PS3 18.5m (made Jan. 4, 2008)