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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Football Thread - 17/18 Season

Don't watch the bad teams and only watch the good teams problem solved, the issue with the group stages is it for most part cut the clutter out for the knock out stages now the clutter is guaranteed to make it into those stages for sure, minnows could essentially make the quarter finals by drawing other minnows essentially making their run look more impressive then it is. You'll see the worst teams twice while the meh teams go deeper than they normally would in tournaments only to provide a free win and semi final spot for the more capable teams.

If a group of death is drawn then that's tough luck you're meant clash with other heavy hitters to win it anyway, such groups added to the tournament, picture how the Fifa rankings are going to look after that tournament.



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RolStoppable said:

What's the exact definition of a minnow?

And meh teams have reached the quarter finals in previous tournament modes of the World Cup too. Holding the luck of the draw against one mode but not the others is disingenious.

Meh teams have done it before but they've at least been forced to work for that spot as opposed to smashing minnows, a lot of time they got there by pulling off upsets something else that added to the tournaments.

Minnow is a slang term in the UK for a tier of opponents who are just there to provide wins for all other teams, picture a meh team like Egypt making it to the quarters after beating the likes of Oman, Uzbekistan, Jamaica and Iran.



RolStoppable said:

Your example is completely unrealistic without pulling off an upset, and if a meh team pulls it off, then it seems to be okay for you anyway.

Before the draw, 16 good teams will be determined as the #1 team in the 16 groups, so an all-trash group can be ruled out. Since the logical tournament mode for the round of 32 makes teams ranked 1st in their group play against teams that were ranked 2nd in another group, two meh teams would only match up if one of them pulled off an upset and toppled the favorite in their group. Really not different from how things are right now and have been in previous tournament modes, but the sheer number of groups in the new tournament mode will mean that every good team will get a Germany-like draw instead of having to fear to land in a group of death.

That's the problem right there like I mentioned before it's rigged to give the so called elite a better tournament otherwise the scenario I mentioned earliar would be common for each tournament. In order to avoid a battle royale of minnows they have to place a member of the elite to try regulate things.

In practice however things won't work as intended because example scenarios like a meh team like Switzerland would just get a draw against Italy and beat a team like Oman 4-0 and top the group from goal difference or something because the Italians tend to just win 1 or 2-0, the Swiss would then face another meh team. I have a feeling scenarios like this are going to pop up and some of those bad Asian and African teams will get far this way.



RolStoppable said:
Wyrdness said:

That's the problem right there like I mentioned before it's rigged to give the so called elite a better tournament otherwise the scenario I mentioned earliar would be common for each tournament. In order to avoid a battle royale of minnows they have to place a member of the elite to try regulate things.

In practice however things won't work as intended because example scenarios like a meh team like Switzerland would just get a draw against Italy and beat a team like Oman 4-0 and top the group from goal difference or something because the Italians tend to just win 1 or 2-0, the Swiss would then face another meh team. I have a feeling scenarios like this are going to pop up and some of those bad Asian and African teams will get far this way.

Whoa, you have it completely wrong. The expansion of the World Cup does not happen because the so-called elite wants to celebrate more convincing wins in the tournament, it's happening because the African and Asian federations are pushing for more spots of their own in the tournament.

If you are concerned about Italy not being able to score enough goals, then I don't understand why you'd expect African and Asian teams to win a group via goal difference. Teams from those continents don't score many goals. Italy is far more likely than them to drive up the score in a game.

Actually no Italy aren't, Italy just won't lose it's what they've done for decades it comes down to style of play they've never really been high scoring, I know for a fact teams like Nigeria, Ivory Coast and such have no issues dispatching lesser teams more convincingly as they've done it many times before. Italy would outscore these teams if they were facing the elite but against minnows the 1 and 2-0s stops becoming a hurdle for these teams to get past.



RolStoppable said:
Wyrdness said:

Actually no Italy aren't, Italy just won't lose it's what they've done for decades it comes down to style of play they've never really been high scoring, I know for a fact teams like Nigeria, Ivory Coast and such have no issues dispatching lesser teams more convincingly as they've done it many times before. Italy would outscore these teams if they were facing the elite but against minnows the 1 and 2-0s stops becoming a hurdle for these teams to get past.

Nigeria and Ivory Coast had some good showings in past tournaments (not every time they participated), but... weren't you talking about bad African and Asian teams before? Now it's even an issue if nations that are clearly above minnow level could win a group?

They're sometimes bad, Egypt are a good example of the type of team I'm talking about as they smash minnows but freeze against harder opposition.



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poklane said:

Possible Groups at the 2014 World Cup had it used the new formats (assuming 16 teams from Europe, 9 from Africa, 8 from Asia, 7 from South America, 6 from North America, 1 from Oceania + the host Brazil):

Group D:
Spain
Algeria
Iran

: http://www.marca.com/futbol/futbol-internacional/2017/01/10/5874ced7268e3e7b6e8b45ac.html

I just vomited inside my mouth a little

maybe spain would've advanced in that group/jk

 

I don't like it, I prefer the 32 team edition. I like the fact that there is a "group of death", we get interesting matches there 



RolStoppable said:

pastro243 said:

maybe spain would've advanced in that group/jk

 

I don't like it, I prefer the 32 team edition. I like the fact that there is a "group of death", we get interesting matches there 

We weren't going to avoid an expansion of the World Cup. Football is already a mature market in Europe and South America, but Africa and Asia still offer plenty of opportunity for growth. Money stands above everything else.

More teams, but still the same amount of group stage games, that's a compromise I can live with.

Yeah, it was just my prefference, kind of inevitable

Anyway, what pissed me off  a little was the distribution of new spots. Conmebol get 2 new ones while Concacaf gets 3 



RolStoppable said:
pastro243 said:

Yeah, it was just my prefference, kind of inevitable

Anyway, what pissed me off  a little was the distribution of new spots. Conmebol get 2 new ones while Concacaf gets 3 

I don't think the official distribution has been announced yet. Still, CONMEBOL has only ten teams, so seven going to the World Cup is easily the highest percentage for any federation. How many more spots can you realistically expect to get?

I mean, yeah, sure, I could understand that you are pissed off if you are from Venezuela or Bolivia, but otherwise...

I read it in a local newspaper, but it could be wrong. And yeah, didn't think about it like that just until I finished posting haha

I guess it will be strange to change from qualifiers where everyone is killing each other for the spots to one where most of us will go. I also read FIFA was considering fusing CONMEBOL and CONCACAF but I don't think the mayority of CONCACAF would want that. I also think they may change the home/away round robin matches with this 



To me groups of 3 make it seem like they want the 'big teams' to go through, so the poor performances from Spain, Italy and England last time would be harder to replicate. It's good for TV and sponsors if the big teams go through and end up playing each other. This 'fixes' it without it looking too fixed. Kinda like the Champions League you can't play a team from your own country crap in the round of 16.



Hmm, pie.

Ka-pi96 said:
pastro243 said:

Yeah, it was just my prefference, kind of inevitable

Anyway, what pissed me off  a little was the distribution of new spots. Conmebol get 2 new ones while Concacaf gets 3 

To be honest I think 2 extra spots for CONMEBOL is too much!

I wouldn`t actually mind COMEBOL and CONCACAF sharing their world cup spots, would make it very hard for central American/Caribbean teams (but who really cares about them? ) though. Ideally I`d like the Copa America and Gold Cup tournaments to remain separate though.

I wouldn't mind either, but I think both don't want to make the fusion for qualifiers

- CONCACAF would probably get only 2 or 3 teams in vs getting 6 or 7(I think even Bolivia and Venezuela would end up getting spots)  

- CONMEBOL doesn't seem to want to loose influence to federations with bigger marketing potential like USA. I heard USA wants another copa america with everyone in 2020 (regular copa america is in 2019 in Brazil) and CONMEBOL doesn't seem to like much that idea