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1. Iwata hasn't "failed at his job". They just need to make sure more games come out more often.

2. If people really care about "helping Nintendo", get the fuck off the couch and go buy a Wii U. There are plenty of great games coming soon, on retail and eShop, along with the many great games already out on it. That's pretty much the end of the discussion right there.



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NintendoPie said:

And this can't be called good business because...?

...because it's not sustainable. Look at how Nintendo's market share lowered from NES to Game Cube. Look at how it lowered from the Wii's shiny beginning to nowaday's Wii U. Nintendo is able to somehow revolutionize the market from time to time but its bad attitude undermines the long-term results.

 

NintendoPie said:

How is 299$ bad compared to what Microsoft or Sony are charging?

Easy: 300€ for a 7th gen console is more expensive than 400€/500€ for a 8th gen console. And AAA game titles will end up being more appealing to ever more demanding consumers than low-budget "remakes" mainly focused on the kindergarten niche. Nintendo may have fooled gaming newcomers with the Wii but "to blunder twice is not allowed in war".

 

NintendoPie said:

Last time I checked, all businesses strive to make a profit. In anyway they can.

You check it wrong then. Different companies have different attitude, despite they all attempt to maximize profits. Therefore, they don't do it in every way they can. They have ethics, principles, rules. For example, Valve's principles would never allow the company to make such shameful decisions as Nintendo did with many of their consoles. They respect the gamer's money in ways Nintendo could never dream on. And the results of such different attitudes can be clearly seen in both companies' actions.

 

NintendoPie said:

I would also like to point out that it wasn't just Microsoft fans who were against MS' practices prior to the XBO's release. The larger voice game from Sony fans and Nintendo fans.

PS3 owners may very well buy an Xbox One, so their reaction is understandable. Gamers that only buy PlayStation consoles have nothing to win from it, so I don't think that makes sense in this case. Regarding Nintendo fans, if they really did so, then they use double standard once they are much more squeezed on Wii or Wii U than they would ever be on a XOne with DRM.

I reaffirm my statement: Xbox would be a disgusting choice if its clients were like Nintendo fans.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

Zod95 said:
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...because it's not sustainable. Look at how Nintendo's market share lowered from NES to Game Cube. Look at how it lowered from the Wii's shiny beginning to nowaday's Wii U. Nintendo is able to somehow revolutionize the market from time to time but its bad attitude undermines the long-term results.

 

-

Easy: 300€ for a 7th gen console is more expensive than 400€/500€ for a 8th gen console. And AAA game titles will end up being more appealing to ever more demanding consumers than low-budget "remakes" mainly focused on the kindergarten niche. Nintendo may have fooled gaming newcomers with the Wii but "to blunder twice is not allowed in war".

 

-

You check it wrong then. Different companies have different attitude, despite they all attempt to maximize profits. Therefore, they don't do it in every way they can. They have ethics, principles, rules. For example, Valve's principles would never allow the company to make such shameful decisions as Nintendo did with many of their consoles. They respect the gamer's money in ways Nintendo could never dream on. And the results of such different attitudes can be clearly seen in both companies' actions.

 

-

PS3 owners may very well buy an Xbox One, so their reaction is understandable. Gamers that only buy PlayStation consoles have nothing to win from it, so I don't think that makes sense in this case. Regarding Nintendo fans, if they really did so, then they use double standard once they are much more squeezed on Wii or Wii U than they would ever be on a XOne with DRM.

I reaffirm my statement: Xbox would be a disgusting choice if its clients were like Nintendo fans.

Nintendo's market share rise and fall came to happen because of many different problems. If you are talking about Nintendo keeping their games at a higher price throughout the generation, that's because of supply and demand. If a company sees that their product is still selling at the price that it first was sold at, they're going to keep it at that price. This didn't effect Nintendo's market share. However, I don't know if this is what you are replying to me about.

Your second point is just plain bollocks all around. Nintendo's console, even if it is considered a "7th generation console", is still affordable in that sphere of thought. The PS3 cost more than it for awhile, then became the same price. The XB 360 was sold at the same price, for certain editions. And the Wii was sold for 50$ less which, I'm guessing here, is a "6th generation console" to you. By "low-budget" remakes are you talking about WWHD? If so, how do you know without question how much it cost to make?

Easy, Nintendo has values. Every company, to an extent, has values. They have to follow laws.

I don't see how you can even disagree with this statement. It shows how the gaming community can come together on something and push against it. Is that bad, in your opinion?



Carl is a Piplup hater and deserves to be punished eternally.

Didn't realize Nintendo was a non-profit organization taking donations. They can suck a fart for all I care. I'm gonna donate money to Monsanto and the Federal Reserve instead.



Zod95 said:

No, it wasn't. What pezus asserted was that there is a company that only cares about profit while there are others that care about gamers and history proves that. And I agree with this. Is it then impossible to care about gamers and make profits at the same time? No, and Microsoft proved that during the entire X360 period. But they certainly couldn't profit as much as Nintendo did with NES (with all those atrocities towards devs, retailers and gamers) or Wii (with all those low budget games ever costing 50€ while PC has the same kind of games for free).

I see here in this thread a lot of double standard. When Sony / Microsoft engage into greedy policies (which is rare, by the way) some people call them greedy. When Nintendo does it (which is much more often and intensive) the very same people call them smart and competent at business management.

When Sony / Microsoft fail, those people find it fair and call them incompetent and out of touch with the gaming industry (after all, they are not deticated gaming companies, as some say). When it's Nintendo, the very same people feel sorry for them and want everybody to donate money to them.

Companies are what we (consumers) allow them to be. With all this double standard, it doesn't surprise me that Nintendo is so much more greedy than Sony / Microsoft. That's obviously gamers' fault. What would have happened if the demanding Xbox clients became as "brand-protective" as those Nintendo fans I was talking about? I bet the DRM policies would have been on at this moment as well as other equally (or even more) aggressive measures that Microsoft has never even dare to think about. Nintendo fans with that attitude will only get harmed (by the very company they are trying to defend) and people like me will only avoid giving a dime to Nintendo.

Are you a joke account?

Nintendo is greedy because third parties overcharged for their games on the Wii? Turkish is a Nintendo fan? When did Nintendo ever try anything of the magnitude of Microsoft's DRM policies? You are asserting that Nintendo committed the same or worse and got away with it because of their brand-protective fans.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

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Talal said:
Metallicube said:

Why any TRUE gamer would want Nintendo third party is completely beyond me..

You REALLY want the last deticated gaming company to go under, and for the entire games industry to be run by the non-gaming soulless corporate machines known as Sony and MS? Sony and MS (and their third party lapdogs) running things by themselves would kill gaming. MS and Sony care nothing about gamers, they only care about getting a foothold in the games industry to expand their influence and increase revenues. Just look at how MS completely sold out gamers with all the DRM shit initially with the Xbone, before a huge backlash from the gamer community scared them into changing. Look at how Sony thought everyone would run out and spend $599USD on a freakin Playstation 3..

 

Metallicube said:

Did you ever thnk that maybe the games stay at that price because they are WORTH it? Obvioulsy people keep buying them,

otherwise they would drop the prices.. If the games were NOT good enough to sell well, the prices would fall. Simple supply and demand.

Nintendo's games are generally on a completely different level of quality than most others, which is why the prices stay high.

Prices reflect true value.


Except very few people bought PS3 at that price



Metallicube said:
Talal said:
Metallicube said:

Why any TRUE gamer would want Nintendo third party is completely beyond me..

You REALLY want the last deticated gaming company to go under, and for the entire games industry to be run by the non-gaming soulless corporate machines known as Sony and MS? Sony and MS (and their third party lapdogs) running things by themselves would kill gaming. MS and Sony care nothing about gamers, they only care about getting a foothold in the games industry to expand their influence and increase revenues. Just look at how MS completely sold out gamers with all the DRM shit initially with the Xbone, before a huge backlash from the gamer community scared them into changing. Look at how Sony thought everyone would run out and spend $599USD on a freakin Playstation 3..

 

Metallicube said:

Did you ever thnk that maybe the games stay at that price because they are WORTH it? Obvioulsy people keep buying them,

otherwise they would drop the prices.. If the games were NOT good enough to sell well, the prices would fall. Simple supply and demand.

Nintendo's games are generally on a completely different level of quality than most others, which is why the prices stay high.

Prices reflect true value.


Except very few people bought PS3 at that price

Quite a bit more than people who bought the WiiU at $300. 

Wait what are we talking about again? I thought this thread was about donating money to the Big N. 



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

Lol, donating to Nintendo like they are even in trouble. They can have 5 console failures in a row and still survive because they are an extremely solvent company. They have cash in the billions of dollars, if anything Nintendo needs to donate to us.



NintendoPie said:

Nintendo's market share rise and fall came to happen because of many different problems.

No, it's not a rise-and-fall. It's a rise-fall-fall-fall then again rise-fall-fall-fall. Fall is the rule, rise is the exception. The rule comes from what they are every day and night (not a coincidence of many problems that strangely get bigger 3 times in a row). The exception comes from a combination of creativity and market opportunity that only happens from time to time.

 

NintendoPie said:

If you are talking about Nintendo keeping their games at a higher price throughout the generation, that's because of supply and demand. If a company sees that their product is still selling at the price that it first was sold at, they're going to keep it at that price. This didn't effect Nintendo's market share.

They managed to control supply and demand in NES times (http://www.geekcomix.com/vgh/fourth/nesbad.shtml) in order to get submissive retailers and gamers. Again, you are considering that all companies think the same way. If what you say was to be right, then Game Cube console and games would have experienced many more price drops than PS2 console and games. And if you read the article I've mentioned, you will understand that it did affect Nintendo's market share. When there are cartrige shortages, games don't sell as much. When it's the console maker controlling cartrige production, 3rd parties don't get as much units as they would want. When small 3rd parties don't have decent sales, they break. When there is less competition, the console maker raises its market share and domination.

 

NintendoPie said:

Nintendo's console, even if it is considered a "7th generation console", is still affordable in that sphere of thought.

Affordable? Yes. Cheap? Not as much as the PS3.

 

NintendoPie said:

The PS3 cost more than it for awhile, then became the same price. The XB 360 was sold at the same price, for certain editions.

In what year, month, day, second did you see the PS3 or X360 more expensive than the Wii U?

 

NintendoPie said:

By "low-budget" remakes are you talking about WWHD? If so, how do you know without question how much it cost to make?

No. The quotation marks were not on the "low-budget" but on the "remakes". Nintendo games are low-budget and that is obvious for me even without knowing any numbers from them. Just do the following experiment: 1 - look at the production costs of high-budget games and low-budget games - 2 - make a list of the things that mostly made the games expensive - 3 - see whether those things are mostly present on the most expensive games - 4 - see if Nintendo's games have those things mostly present too. You will get to the same conclusion as me.

Regarding "remakes", I'm talking about the old same old IPs with the old same old game architectures. Nintendo is the company doing it the most. The most demanding gamers could not stand for it and decided to migrate to PlayStation as soon as it appeared. That was Sony's revolution with the PS1: a revolution of atttitude...and the market opportunity was there, gamers were desperately waiting for new games and decent quality/price offers.

 

NintendoPie said:

Easy, Nintendo has values. Every company, to an extent, has values. They have to follow laws.

I don't get you. Of course evey company has values and they go beyond the law. Sony and Microsoft could have adopted the region lock for PS4 and XOne (like Nintendo did for WiiU) but they didn't. Nintendo has certainly more values than Monsanto once I don't see them capable of challenging the public health. And there are many more examples of different values among different companies. The law means actually very little as some companies manage to change it with their influence while others go around it changing the market rules.

 

NintendoPie said:

I don't see how you can even disagree with this statement. It shows how the gaming community can come together on something and push against it. Is that bad, in your opinion?

No they don't. I won't even talk about fanboys that only want to see the other side burning. A gamer is a consumer, and a consumer only cares about him/herself. I'm not concerned about whether it is good or bad. It is what it is. So, gamers fighting for the abolishment of the DRM from XOne only came (significantly) from people interested on the console.

But ok, let's forget about Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo clients and let's just consider them as gamers. Then my statement would be: Xbox would be a disgusting choice if gamers were as demanding with it as they are with Nintendo consoles.



Prediction made in 14/01/2014 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 70M      WiiU: 25M

Prediction made in 01/04/2016 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 100M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 18M

Prediction made in 15/04/2017 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 90M      XOne: 40M      WiiU: 15M      Switch: 20M

Prediction made in 24/03/2018 for 31/12/2020:      PS4: 110M      XOne: 50M      WiiU: 14M      Switch: 65M

RolStoppable said:
pezus said:

Ironic.

One question: Which company is the only company to have nickled and dimed gamers since the beginning, profiting from them? Which companies have barely even profited despite great sales? There's clearly one company that cares only about profit while the others care about gamers.

If Nintendo gave a shit about gamers they wouldn't have made the WiiU. Look at how they thought everyone would run out and spend $299 on a freakin WiiU

I still can't figure out if this is a joke, no matter how often I read it. There's a chance you actually believe that businesses who don't profit care about gamers while in reality they are just bad at business.

Lol, it was kind of a joke but with some truth in it. If Nintendo cared about gamers before money they wouldn't have profited so insanely a few years back and then developed the WiiU.