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Forums - PC Discussion - AMD unveils 'Mantle' API to optimize GPU performance - Debute with BF4

Dr.EisDrachenJaeger on 26 September 2013

Sounds like something that tailors to the consoles set up^



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Zappykins on 26 September 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Zappykins said:

Hmmm, not sure I would take that bet either.  NVidia may have come up with something special on their own - or join them. Like how most streaming devices use SilverLight (for the moment) rather than their own platform.

They have some neat server rendering stuff they have been working with Microsoft on, perhaps that's is another way they are planning future revenue?  From the server GPU side?  Or maybe someone like Intel will buy them up. (I have no idea about that.)

This will also put a little fire under Microsoft and might cause some interesting effects to DirectX 12, whenever that comes out.

I doubt intel will buy them because Jen will want to demand the position of CEO of intel and I doubt their board of directors will allow it. Microsoft and sony and valve maybe will have to start obeying amd from now on LOL.

Ha ha ha, from scrawny little buy out a few years ago, to now Big Mighty GP Dictator!   Sound like Tropico!

Plus, I don't think Intel really needs them.  Being a bit behind on the GPU is fine for them.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

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zarx on 26 September 2013
ethomaz said:

I don't know if you guys see a big downside in this new API...

To be close to the hardware you need to eliminate all the abstraction level used to deal with different types of hardware... so this API will be limited to one unique kind of hardware (GCN).

So forget nVidia or any other GPU hardware.... low-level API can't deal with different hardware... that's kill the purpose of a low-level API. If you start to add abstraction level to support more hardware you will go back to DirectX/OpenGL.

The API is open but it can deal with only one hardware to maintain this low-level access.

For each similar hardware a new API will need to be created i you want this advantage... so for each Family in nVidia GPU will need to have it own API... same for AMD... each family a new API.

While that DirectX and OpenGL support every family of GPU from any company since... well... forever.

PS. This API will be dead when AMD moved to a new architecture in the future.

You really think they will take it that far? I was kinda thinking something a bit more portable than that, sure it was designed to expose all the latest features of GCN but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's as low level as a console API. I guess I imagined something like a striped down OpenGL without all the legacy support and general bloat that constrains OpenGL, and a feature-set that exposes all the latest features in GCN as well as presumable support for hUMA. Most of the improvements layed out in the slides seem to be about removing CPU side overhead. I guess they do mention lots of low-level optimizations which would could mean hardware specific tweaks.

It would be kinda a shame to buy a new AMD card in 5 years and suddenly old games look and run worse than a much weaker older card because Mantle isn't supported anymore. I wonder when they will release more info on it, are there any whitepapers available yet?



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Pemalite on 26 September 2013

I think we need more information on Mantle and see how the PC industry reacts to it with game and hardware support before we make any kind of judgement, details are still pretty sparse at the moment.

Not sure if it will be hardware or driver dependent, depends how near the metal it really is, regardless you cannot doubt it's potential. :)



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

ethomaz on 26 September 2013

zarx said:

You really think they will take it that far? I was kinda thinking something a bit more portable than that, sure it was designed to expose all the latest features of GCN but that doesn't neccesserily mean that it's as low level as a console API. I guess I imagined something like a striped down OpenGL without all the legacy support and general bloat that contrains OpenGL, and a featureset that exposes all the latest features in GCN as well as presumable support for hUMA. Most of the improvements layed out in the slides seem to be about removing CPU side overhead. I guess they do mention lots of low-level optimisations which would could mean hardware specific tweaks.

It would be kinda a shame to buy a new AMD card in 5 years and suddenly old games look and run worse than a much weaker older card because Mantle is'nt supported anymore. I wonder when they will release more info on it, are their any whitepapers available yet?

So the "low-level" is just PR word after all... the API will be close to DirectX/OpenGL



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zarx on 26 September 2013
ethomaz said:

So the "low-level" is just PR word after all... the API will be close to DirectX/OpenGL


Maybe some midpoint between them and console APIs. They still have a driver level between the API and the hardware, tho they claim it's a "thin driver" whatever that means. I guess we won't know until they release more technical details.



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Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

NiKKoM on 26 September 2013

Why are there no benchmarks? Way to present something like this with no benchmarks..

Anyway hope it flops and dies soon.. I like the idea of the PC being " infinte" backward compatible and don't like the potential defragmentation.. Glide ftw!



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

Pemalite on 26 September 2013
NiKKoM said:
Why are there no benchmarks? Way to present something like this with no benchmarks..

Anyway hope it flops and dies soon.. I like the idea of the PC being " infinte" backward compatible and don't like the potential defragmentation.. Glide ftw!


Uh. It will be backwards compatible. It's not like AMD GPU's will suddenly loose compatibility with the Direct X or OpenGL API's, that would literally be suicide for AMD's entire GPU business.

Plus, you can still run Glide-Only games with pretty much any GPU with what is known as a "Glide wrapper".



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

NiKKoM on 26 September 2013
Pemalite said:
NiKKoM said:
Why are there no benchmarks? Way to present something like this with no benchmarks..

Anyway hope it flops and dies soon.. I like the idea of the PC being " infinte" backward compatible and don't like the potential defragmentation.. Glide ftw!


Uh. It will be backwards compatible. It's not like AMD GPU's will suddenly loose compatibility with the Direct X or OpenGL API's, that would literally be suicide for AMD's entire GPU business.

Plus, you can still run Glide-Only games with pretty much any GPU with what is known as a "Glide wrapper".

Sure they'll still support opengl and directx but will future GPU still support Mantle? wil the new next gen consoles in 6 to 8 years still have AMD? And a glide wrapper is easy now cause the games arent demanding but running those Mantle games in a "Mantle wrapper" won't be as easy as that.. Surley AMD will moneyhat some games to support this.. I just don't like the potential defragmentation



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

HoloDust on 26 September 2013
NiKKoM said:
Why are there no benchmarks? Way to present something like this with no benchmarks..

Anyway hope it flops and dies soon.. I like the idea of the PC being " infinte" backward compatible and don't like the potential defragmentation.. Glide ftw!


There will be, once BF4 launches with both DX11 and Mantle versions.

Funny thing is, not so long ago I remember someone (not sure who, I think it's someone from EPIC) was saying how we need to get rid of DX and go with better APIs for PCs.

Later that night...