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Forums - General Discussion - So.. Scantily Clad Women at the IGDA Party Made The Industry Freak Out.. Sexism Again?

kain_kusanagi said:
D-Minaj225 said:
in their defense the sexy dancing was unnecessary at a game developers conference


They won't listen. I tried. Some people think so long as they like it everyone should just shut up and deal with it.


The point is, being a member of a gender doesn't automatically give you the "privilege" of being offended by what other members of your gender do. The dancers had a complete democratic choice over whether or not to accept the job offer, evidently they found the paid satisfactory and didn't feel their women rights were infringed upon. Sure, the other women at the event took offense, but that's their personal choice and they quit their job, nobody shed a tear. 

The point is, this feminist idealogy goes to extreme length in some individuals. Don't like the portrayal or women in porn? Then don't watch porn. Nobody is forcing those porn actresses to do their job as they do, they like the pay and they are fine with how they are portrayed. The other "offended" females have no "privilege" to infringe upon the others' freedom and choice in this matter in the name of "equality".



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kain_kusanagi said:
Here we go again. Anytime someone is offended we get an earful from those who say it's not. If someone is offended than it is offensive. Girls on a stage in sexy outfits doing sexy dancing. Yeah I'm sure the professional woman of GDC just loved it.

Come on guys. GDC is conference for game developer professionals. I'm all for a fun party, but is it really professional to hire dancing girls when woman have been fighting for respect in the gaming industry for decades?

You don't have to be offended for someone to be offensive to someone else. I'm not offended by the girls. I love sexy dancing girls. But it's not a bachelor party, it's and industry event.

I'd also like to point out that the whole "anything goes" and "stop being sensitive" attitude is a little inconsiderate.

More or less the case... really i just mostly feel bad for people who don't get this stuff....

and people wonder why mainstream society still doesn't treat gaming as grown up.



wfz said:
kain_kusanagi said:
wfz said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Here we go again. Anytime someone is offended we get an earful from those who say it's not. If someone is offended than it is offensive. Girls on a stage in sexy outfits doing sexy dancing. Yeah I'm sure the professional woman of GDC just loved it.

Come on guys. GDC is conference for game developer professionals. I'm all for a fun party, but is it really professional to hire dancing girls when woman have been fighting for respect in the gaming industry for decades?

You don't have to be offended for someone to be offensive to someone else. I'm not offended by the girls. I love sexy dancing girls. But it's not a bachelor party, it's and industry event.

I'd also like to point out that the whole "anything goes" and "stop being sensitive" attitude is a little inconsiderate.


Wow, you really went full throttle there! I won't bother replying to most of it, since I didn't even make those points in my OP, but I will stand by the fact that I don't think it's anything to be offended about when girls wear pretty clothing and dance. There's a difference between wearing a dress and wearing a thong! 

Also, why can't women dress pretty, dance, and still be respected? Are men not respected at events where there are men dancing on stage?


You put a sexy girl in a sexy outfit on a stage to do a sexy dance. Who is it for? It's for men to ogle at. I like to ogle at sexy girls doing sexy dances as much as the next guy, so I'm not offended. However, I can completely understand how the professional woman at GDC saw these dancing girls as undermining everything they have fought for in the industry.

Can a dancing girl be respected?  Of course, I have no disrespect for dancing girls. That's not the point. The professional woman at GDC are tired of woman being seen as nothing more than sexual objects for men's enjoyment.

The women who came to GDC are professionals that want to be respected for their contribution to video game design. One of the most important topics at this year's GDC was the portrayal of woman in video games.

 


I find it interesting that you think of women dancers as nothing but sexual objects for male enjoyment. I suppose a lot of it is place and context, but those women in the picture definitely do not look like sexual objects to me, they look like women in pretty party clothing who are dancing and having fun.

As a side topic, I also find it humorous how scared we USA citizens are of the human body and how its depiction without full clothing must always be purely sexually undermining (if it's a female. If it's a male's body, then its sexual empowerment, I think. I don't quite understand how it works).


It's the same reason why calling a white person a cracker isn't as offensive as calling a black person a nigger.  There is a systematic history of one group being held down... primarily by the other group.

That something is more offensive based on context is humerous to you?  

Objectifying women is a call back to when they weren't treated like people.   Which was a hell of  alot more recent then you seem to think.  (It hasn't even been 100 years.)

Objectifying men brings men back to... never.  Men have always had at worst a majority of power socially.  Such things only hurt when there is something to hurt... something to call back to.

 



pezus said:
I agree with allblue. Why the fuck should I care about what some other members of my own sex are doing? Should I be offended when I see a sexualized guy in a women's magazine? I know I am not...

But now I am offended. Oh, yes.


You may be missing the point of these guys (even though its a weak one)

Because its a business event it should be all business....

But the fact that this is also a gaming event (as professional as it is) there is nothing wrong with unwinding and breaking up the tech monotony.

 

these same people have no problem with cos play at gaming events though which is a bit hypocrytical. 



It cheapens the industry



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what about all the booth babes at EVERY convention



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Rab said:
It cheapens the industry


Yeah. That's why the car industry is "cheapend". Or the perfume industry. Or Internet domain industry (you know what I'm talking about)

You know what cheapens the industry? People drawing negative press just to get attention. 





It's the same reason why calling a white person a cracker isn't as offensive as calling a black person a nigger.  There is a systematic history of one group being held down... primarily by the other group.

That something is more offensive based on context is humerous to you?  

Objectifying women is a call back to when they weren't treated like people.   Which was a hell of  alot more recent then you seem to think.  (It hasn't even been 100 years.)

Objectifying men brings men back to... never.  Men have always had at worst a majority of power socially.  Such things only hurt when there is something to hurt... something to call back to.

 

I find it humorous that we are so scared of the human body in the fact that every time that skin is seen (with less than full clothing on) we all go crazy over how it is objectifying and sexually demeaning. Why is that? Why can't we just have respect for our bodies and not freak out over something so natural? We in the USA have this huge phobia towards the human body, something not seen in many, if not most, other countries. But then we're backwards in the way we love violence, but that's a different thread.

Honestly, men are objectified as well. I've been objectified and felt pressured to look a certain way my entire life. And I've also been put under pressure for the way I look my entire life as well. I understand the difference - men are objectified in a powerful way and women are objectified in a softer, more sexualized manner. But both are objectified and both have pressure to look like the object portrayed in societies.

 

Let's take a step back from all this, though, and look at the picture in my OP. Those are not "scantily clad" women. They are women in standard party outfits/dresses. This whole issue gets blown out of proportion and sensualized in order to prove a point that didn't exist. Those girls were there to liven up the party and put everyone in a dancing mood, and from what I've seen they were not sex dolls nor merely there to be oogled at for their sexual organs. Like I said, I've seen underage school girls in much less clothing and no one freaks out over that. And why freak out anyways? Those women have jobs. They are not forced to do those jobs, they do them because they want to. Should their jobs (dancers) be something to look down upon? Sounds sexist to me.. let them do what they please and let us respect them for who they are as people rather than what their job is! =)



i really wonder if people are serious if they say "and people wonder why gaming isn't respected"

there are a lot of reasons why gaming isn't respected (playing a mario game or shooting people in the head in the virtual world is) but a few professional dancers on a party are not really the reason. even hugh hefner is more respected as gaming.

as if there wouldn't be some professional dancers on the oscar or grammy parties and those have probably much shorter clothes.

and most of those who complain about that watch the next jennifer lopez song at the grammy's and don't care to see some half naked guys dancing in the backround (and why should anyone).

you could argue "but the grammy's are a music prize and dancers and music fit together". that's right and as long as they had danceable music and not game soundtracks at this gdc party, dancers make a lot of sense.



crissindahouse said:

i really wonder if people are serious if they say "and people wonder why gaming isn't respected"

there are a lot of reasons why gaming isn't respected but a few professional dancers on a party are not really the reason. even hugh hefner is more respected as gaming.

as if there wouldn't be some professional dancers on the oscar or grammy parties and those have probably much shorter clothes.

and most of those woman who complain about that watch the next jennifer lopez song at the grammy's and don't care to see some half naked guys dancing in the backround (and why should anyone)


You bring up an interesting point. While it could be argued that it's different when they're half naked men, people don't stop *for a second* when we see half naked women in magazines, on TV, dancing on stages, in movies, etc., or even portrayed as what might be considered "sex objects" in our pop songs. Nobody bats an eye.

And then at an after party.. in San Francisco... girls wear regular clothing/dresses and dance and it's the end of the world because they're 1% associated with the video game industry. Oh neos teh sexist. =) If anything, I say we should respect those women and not judge them based on their work but on who they are. I think it's sexist to say those women are sex objects when they're paid to get a dancing party started. And who's calling these women sex objects? Oh that's right, feminists and "women's rights" advocates. While the rest of us don't even bat an eye and don't think of them as sex objects at all.