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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - EuroGamer: How Powerful is the WiiU Really?

ninetailschris on 04 September 2012
Scoobes said:
ninetailschris said:
Seems like if you quote actual developers it has no creditably like Vigil Games saying can run a game at high end PC Version"

But quote an anonymous and some rumors you are totally legit.

This why nobody takes anyone on the internet serious.

"Vigil Games: "We had the game at the [same level as high end pc version] in a matter of days and a few lines of code got the game up and running on tablet in 5 mins.""

"Where did I claim OpenGL 3? Your the one that raised DirectX10 vs 11 in your article which claimed DirectX11 effects. I simply stated that the effects mentioned in the article were also possible with DirectX10 (not neccessarily easy to implement but possible), or in the case of Compute shaders, are actually possible with DX11 but on DX10 spec hardware. Technically, the PS3 and 360 are capable of some tesellation not to mention AMD chips have had non-standard tesellation units since the HD2000 series and DX11 spec ones since the HD5000 series.
As you mention, we shouldn't even be talking about DirectX as the hardware will be using OpenGL and I fully expect it to use OpenGL 4 (especially since the article states it uses a 7xxx series GPU)."

Tessellation Unit and Control isn't possible on OpenGl 3. Tell me how it would have it? It's already confirmed that it's OPENGL by the fact of it not being by Microsoft. So, either they don't know what there talking about or someone is lying. Because if your saying Direct 10 effects your trying to say Opengl 3 because Opengl 4 is everything Direct11x is with tessellation unit and control. I'm saying anything bad about you just that Eurogamer doesn't have clue of what there talking about.

If It's using Opengl 4 which like you said has been out before x7 series why would it only be able to use direct 10 effects if OPENGl 4 can do directx 11 effects easily?

The guy writing this probably has no clue about cards and Opengl because if he did then it would be obvious it could do direct 11 effects.

I believe the guy is doing damage control from two weeks so it looks like the article wasn't off much.

John Nash isn't saying anything about the ability of the system just that if it's not as powerful as ps4/nextbox doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good system. Which we can all agree.

By not as powerful we are not talking light years we are talking 2-4 generations ahead kinda like the gamecube and ps2.

Ps4 and Nextbox couldn't be powerful enough to not be able to scale down. The only thing holding wii back not able to do HD and only being 2 generations ahead of gamecube.

I agree that the author likely doesn't know much on the technical side. I had a look at his previous articles and this is the only vaguely tech based article he's written. So it wouldn't surprise me if he really has no clue about the GPU and has written misunderstood info from devs. Wouldn't surprise me if he mistook R700 for 7xxx series chip, as all rumours seemed to point to a chip originally based on R700 (which may also be where he got the DirectX10 idea from).

The only other possibility is that it uses OpenGL4 but has an older Tessellation unit in the chip.

As for developer comments, even the non-anonymous ones can be confusing (or media are misinterpreting/mistranslating). Take your Vigil games example:

Article 1:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/03/vigil_games_wii_u_on_par_with_current_gen_consoles

"So far the hardware's been on par with what we have with the current generations. Based on what I understand, the resolution and textures and polycounts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to up-rez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure."

Article 2:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/06/07/could-project-caf-233-be-the-best-platform-for-darksiders-ii.aspx

When we asked Bonstead if he thought it was possible that the Wii U version of Darksiders II would be the best version of the game, he said, "Yeah, just because the hardware is more powerful and it will have some extra features that I think will actually be useful to people playing the game. With it’s controller, [the Wii U version of Darksiders II] might be the best version of the game."

So, "on-par with current gen" or "hardware is more powerful"?  I know which one is more likely but comments can vary as much as the ones from anonymous sources... and this is from people working at the same company!


All I get from this the internet is confusing and unreliable lol.

Let's see what Nintendo says because they know 100 percent and rumors have just been shown not to even be 10 percent.

If the gpu like sega said it high then I'm pretty sure the rumors about it being 4850 is false because it's good butnot surpisable.

With so many rumors about upgrades and stuff nothing is for sure but later on it will.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

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zarx on 04 September 2012
ninetailschris said:


All I get from this the internet is confusing and unreliable lol.

Let's see what Nintendo says because they know 100 percent and rumors have just been shown not to even be 10 percent.

If the gpu like sega said it high then I'm pretty sure the rumors about it being 4850 is false because it's good butnot surpisable.

With so many rumors about upgrades and stuff nothing is for sure but later on it will.

Shigeru Miyamoto
"We're very sensitive, of course, to trying to do all of this at an appropriate price. So I don't know that we would be able to sit here and say that it's going to necessarily dramatically outperform the systems that are out now."

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2011/06/wii_u_striking_balance_between_performance_and_price

"The system itself hasn't really changed. In order to maintain a consistent development environment, you really have to fix your specs at one point and let people know what they're designing for, so they can make good progress," 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/20/miyamoto-discusses-wii-us-future?

And the Wii U likely doesn't have a GPU as powerful as a HD 4850 that is over 4 times as powerful as the X360's Xenos which would certainly be dramatically outperforming IMO. 



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Viper1 on 04 September 2012
zarx said:

And the Wii U likely doesn't have a GPU as powerful as a HD 4850 that is over 4 times as powerful as the X360's Xenos which would certainly be dramatically outperforming IMO. 

Partially correct.   Many people early on suggested the Wii U's GPU would be based on the HD 4770 which is only slightly less powerful than the HD 4850 (960 Gflops vs 1000 Gflops).

I myself still believe the HD 4770 is likely given the power consumption benefits and currently active die process (40 nm).



The rEVOLution is not being televised

ninetailschris on 04 September 2012
zarx said:
ninetailschris said:


All I get from this the internet is confusing and unreliable lol.

Let's see what Nintendo says because they know 100 percent and rumors have just been shown not to even be 10 percent.

If the gpu like sega said it high then I'm pretty sure the rumors about it being 4850 is false because it's good butnot surpisable.

With so many rumors about upgrades and stuff nothing is for sure but later on it will.

Shigeru Miyamoto
"We're very sensitive, of course, to trying to do all of this at an appropriate price. So I don't know that we would be able to sit here and say that it's going to necessarily dramatically outperform the systems that are out now."

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2011/06/wii_u_striking_balance_between_performance_and_price

"The system itself hasn't really changed. In order to maintain a consistent development environment, you really have to fix your specs at one point and let people know what they're designing for, so they can make good progress," 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/20/miyamoto-discusses-wii-us-future?

And the Wii U likely doesn't have a GPU as powerful as a HD 4850 that is over 4 times as powerful as the X360's Xenos which would certainly be dramatically outperforming IMO. 


Exactly.

 

Vasely outperfrom is a subjective view. n64 to gamecube could be example  oppose to gamecube to wii.

He was probbably stating it wouldn't be so powerful it would make current gen look like a n64 to gamecube which is already known.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

zarx on 05 September 2012
Viper1 said:
zarx said:

And the Wii U likely doesn't have a GPU as powerful as a HD 4850 that is over 4 times as powerful as the X360's Xenos which would certainly be dramatically outperforming IMO. 

Partially correct.   Many people early on suggested the Wii U's GPU would be based on the HD 4770 which is only slightly less powerful than the HD 4850 (960 Gflops vs 1000 Gflops).

I myself still believe the HD 4770 is likely given the power consumption benefits and currently active die process (40 nm).

personally I doubt that there will be a direct parrellel to any existing R700 SKU. It will be a custom chip likely with a whole bunch of EDRAM.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

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itsyounghavok on 05 September 2012

Sure the next xbox and ps console will have plenty more power... the question is, how many developers are going to be investing the millions into taking advantage of it? I mean PC's smoking consoles now but the best looking games on PC aren't leaps ahead of whats on consoles now. I believe nintendo is on the right path with what they are doing. Smaller developers will be able to maintain their current engines with modest improvement on the WiiU and continue to output content at a steady rate, while only the major developers will more than likely be making games for the higher end consoles. The WiiU will be fine power wise which is apparent in the ram alone. Once devs start pushing it they will get some beautiful titles out of it that will be damn near indistinguishable from the best on the market from whoever else is out there. Only time will tell though



Games are fun.

Viper1 on 05 September 2012
zarx said:
Viper1 said:
zarx said:

And the Wii U likely doesn't have a GPU as powerful as a HD 4850 that is over 4 times as powerful as the X360's Xenos which would certainly be dramatically outperforming IMO. 

Partially correct.   Many people early on suggested the Wii U's GPU would be based on the HD 4770 which is only slightly less powerful than the HD 4850 (960 Gflops vs 1000 Gflops).

I myself still believe the HD 4770 is likely given the power consumption benefits and currently active die process (40 nm).

personally I doubt that there will be a direct parrellel to any existing R700 SKU. It will be a custom chip likely with a whole bunch of EDRAM.

Certainly all console GPU's are custom but they tend to be built from a specific model's groundwork.   Even a simple clock change would be enough to call it a custom chip.  It simply needs to be something other than the absolute default.  How much AMD customizes it is another question but their is no question that it will be based on an existing GPU.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

JGarret on 05 September 2012
Viper1 said:
zarx said:

And the Wii U likely doesn't have a GPU as powerful as a HD 4850 that is over 4 times as powerful as the X360's Xenos which would certainly be dramatically outperforming IMO. 

Partially correct.   Many people early on suggested the Wii U's GPU would be based on the HD 4770 which is only slightly less powerful than the HD 4850 (960 Gflops vs 1000 Gflops).

I myself still believe the HD 4770 is likely given the power consumption benefits and currently active die process (40 nm).


Viper, assuming the HD 4770 is the one that the system uses..how much more powerful than the 360 and PS3 GPUs it really is?



Viper1 on 05 September 2012
JGarret said:
Viper1 said:

Partially correct.   Many people early on suggested the Wii U's GPU would be based on the HD 4770 which is only slightly less powerful than the HD 4850 (960 Gflops vs 1000 Gflops).

I myself still believe the HD 4770 is likely given the power consumption benefits and currently active die process (40 nm).


Viper, assuming the HD 4770 is the one that the system uses..how much more powerful than the 360 and PS3 GPUs it really is?

If we compare the actual PC GPU, it's a good deal more powerful.   But we can't be certain if the are going to keep the clocks the same, increase them, decrease them, what the effects of the eDRAM will do, etc...

But, based on the knowns we get the following:

PS3's RSX : 190 Gflops
X360's Xenos :  240 Gflops
HD 4770:  960 Gflops



The rEVOLution is not being televised

lilbroex on 05 September 2012

When did the it swith to 4770? All rumors pointed to it using one of the 4800s with the 4850 being the big contender.