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Do you think it is normal having firearms?

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hibikir said:
BenKenobi88 said:
 

More murders with firearms because firearms are the weapons of choice typically. If guns did not exist these murders would have likely occurred with knives or other murder weapons. Perhaps not 9000, but certainly not all or most of those murders occurred simply because of the gun...it's the murderer.

Listen, you can go for restricting or abolishing guns, but you're going to have a hard time proving that it would do anything.


Killing someone with the next most popular weapon, a knife, is much harder than using a gun. The attacker has to surprise the victim, attacking from the back, or overpower him, which in many cases it is just not doable.

One or two stabs won't do it unless they are very well placed: The attacker will probably have to stab the victim repetedly, risking bodily harm, and getting a ton of evidence all over himself.

It's also easier to flee from someone with a knife than with someone with a gun.

It's also less common to accidentally kill someone with a knife. Accidental gun deaths happen all the time.

In the end, an assailant armed with a knife has less chances of succeeding, and even if he succeeeds, of getting away with it. It's not the gun's fault, it's just so much more efficient that it allows some people to act on urges they'd never go with using a knife.

Think about this comic book weapon: The Death Note. A book that kills any person whose name is written on it. The person seems to die of a heart attack. Almost impossible to trace a crime to the perpetrator, 100% success rate. It's hard to prove it was even a murder. Would the number of murders increase if people had access to such a weapon? Killing without risk or consequences other than guilt? Of course it would increase! Wife cheats on you? kill the bastard! Disagree with a politician? He's gone, and nobody can find you! It'd change the world as we know it. A gun is not quite as convenient, but in the same way, it makes crime happen that wouldn't happen otherwise.


I would argue that most people that fire a gun have about as much sense as someone pulling a knife on someone, and that guns are also easier to trace than knives, as they're supposed to be registered and can be traced to bullets easier than a knife can be traced to a body.



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^^^ Fact

Sorry, but you can't look at a knife wound and say "Oh, well, this was cause by a (insert brand here) knife, and it matches the knife wounds caused in these other victims. people can match up bullets to victims which makes for definitive evidence in passing sentence on crimes. There's also the fact that guns leave DEFNITE traces when someone has just used them. guns are LOUD. Even with earplugs it'll still leave your ears ringing to fire them, just pulling one out and unloading is going to leave you nearly deaf for a while not to mention alreting EVERYONE in the nearby area that something is up, and the gunpowder leaves a VERY distinct taste in the air as well.

to a certain extent, they can make guesses if you have a string of identical knife wounds, but usually only because knives are so rarely used in favor of guns, if you had more knives being used, it'd all just look the same.

 

It sorta makes me wonder, really. How many violent crimes are there that aren't gun related that simply are overlooked because no crime can be proven? I mean, people cut themselves on things, fall down and hit their head off of a wall or a door. when you have knife wounds and basic blunt trauma, there's really not that much difference, some people might not report it, some people might credit these incidents to self inflicted or accidental injuries. A bullet wound is highly identifiable though, and you don't just bump against wall and suddenly there's a bullet in your shoulder, someone had to have fired a gun in order ot put it there, so pretty much every incidence in which a gun is used is going to be identified, while other violent crimes are much mroe easily overlooked.



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hibikir said:
Gun control works really well in most European countries for two reasons:
1)Generally good citizens have very little access to guns, so they won't end up using them in a moment of rage.
2)Since there aren't all that many illegal guns in circulation, it's not really all that easy for the criminal to get a gun.

There are so many firearms in the US, some of them even full auto that have been grandfathered in the law, that European-style gun control won't help. Without disarming the population first, it's of no use. Since every disarmament effort would not really make a dent on the criminal element's access to guns, it'd be a pretty bad idea.

It's not been working as well in Europe as people might think.  Some police in the UK are now carrying firearms due to the rise in firearm use among criminals.

 

The firearm genie is out of the bottle.  No one can put it back in the bottle via legislation without worldwide martial law, and even then there would still be quite a few who would have guns.  Good luck trying to un-invent the firearm.

 



hibikir said:
BenKenobi88 said:
 

More murders with firearms because firearms are the weapons of choice typically. If guns did not exist these murders would have likely occurred with knives or other murder weapons. Perhaps not 9000, but certainly not all or most of those murders occurred simply because of the gun...it's the murderer.

Listen, you can go for restricting or abolishing guns, but you're going to have a hard time proving that it would do anything.


Killing someone with the next most popular weapon, a knife, is much harder than using a gun. The attacker has to surprise the victim, attacking from the back, or overpower him, which in many cases it is just not doable.

One or two stabs won't do it unless they are very well placed: The attacker will probably have to stab the victim repetedly, risking bodily harm, and getting a ton of evidence all over himself.

It's also easier to flee from someone with a knife than with someone with a gun.

It's also less common to accidentally kill someone with a knife. Accidental gun deaths happen all the time.

In the end, an assailant armed with a knife has less chances of succeeding, and even if he succeeeds, of getting away with it. It's not the gun's fault, it's just so much more efficient that it allows some people to act on urges they'd never go with using a knife.

Think about this comic book weapon: The Death Note. A book that kills any person whose name is written on it. The person seems to die of a heart attack. Almost impossible to trace a crime to the perpetrator, 100% success rate. It's hard to prove it was even a murder. Would the number of murders increase if people had access to such a weapon? Killing without risk or consequences other than guilt? Of course it would increase! Wife cheats on you? kill the bastard! Disagree with a politician? He's gone, and nobody can find you! It'd change the world as we know it. A gun is not quite as convenient, but in the same way, it makes crime happen that wouldn't happen otherwise.

 

Really?  I'm pretty sure that anyone, who would actually kill another person, is not going to stop and say "Hey I really want to kill this person, but all I have is this knife.  Oh well, guess I won't because it's not efficient enough."  

There are a lot of problems in the USA, but guns really aren't one of them.  There are major cultural issues causing the problems and people simply want a scapegoat for them.  The nature of guns just make them an easy target.

 



Smash Bros: 2363-5325-6342 

lol @ Americans who still denies firearms to be a problem for them. It's simply incredible how blind humans can be.



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clerk said:
lol @ Americans who still denies firearms to be a problem for them. It's simply incredible how blind humans can be.

Well it's a good thing we have someone with your amazing divine wisdom to help us all see. I'm sure you can easily state that the real problem Americans have is firearms, and there is no underlying issues causing people to actually use them to kill other people. Nope there couldn't be any other reasons. Glad you were here to figure this out for us.

You do realize that throughout the history of the USA most of the population posessed guns right? The murder rate is a current issue that didn't exist before, even though the guns were still there. But yeah the guns are the problem, couldn't be anything else. The one thing that has remained constant is causing the problem that's occurring now, but it wasn't before. Guns just decided "hey it's about time to start causing some murders." Nope nothing else could be the issue. Let's just pin our problems on guns and ignore all the social and cultural issues because if we ignore them they'll just go away.



Smash Bros: 2363-5325-6342 

I'm not going to argue with you. I've been into waaaaay to many arguements, with Americans who will never change their minds, nomatter how much the truth stares them in the face. It's a total waste of time, and something I've learned not to do. If you want a comment on the subject, I refer to my previous post.



clerk said:
I'm not going to argue with you. I've been into waaaaay to many arguements, with Americans who will never change their minds, nomatter how much the truth stares them in the face. It's a total waste of time, and something I've learned not to do. If you want a comment on the subject, I refer to my previous post.

 lol, the irony



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My Prediction: Wii will be achieve 48% market share by the end of 2008, and will achieve 50% by the end of june of 09. Prediction Failed.

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clerk said:
lol @ Americans who still denies firearms to be a problem for them. It's simply incredible how blind humans can be.

There's a respectable way to argue against guns; hibikir's posts are good examples of this.  Yours are not.