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Forums - Sony Discussion - A better way to get what you want after 3.21

strunge said:
only777 said:
Ok people that say there is not a case here are wrong. When I brought the machine, it was advertised as a machine that included online gaming and open platform. Both are STILL on there website, I don't need to point out online gaming as a feature but heres the open platform part:
http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html
If I lose either one of those things then Sony has broken an EU law which is:

· be fit for the purpose which the consumer requires them and which was made known to the seller at the time of purchase.

Now EU law overides any companys TOS or EULA, so thats is that argument out the window.
I use linux (Ubuntu) on my PS3, but I'm a fair man. I'll let Sony take it away to keep the PS3 piracy free.
But I want something back, all Fat owners have been robbed otherwise. I paid for this feature, by law you can't take it way.
Now I don't need a good lawer, becuase in the UK we have a thing called Trading Standards (and watchdog) which do these things for you.
If you think what I'm saying is correct and fair, then join my facebook group about it so I can have a few voices behind me before I take it has far as trading Standards.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=110549712296723

except the online function is a function that requires additional components and agreements -- you still have to agree to specific terms to use it and if you don't you choose not to access it.  the option isn't a feature Sony has to provide free of regulations as you are dishonestly attempting to portray it as.  by your logic, I can sue Sony if I don't have an internet connection because the system says I can play online but does not state on the package that I have to provide an additional component to do so  -- my own internet connection. 

online play is clearly provided as an optional feature that requires additional acceptance on your part, and now you want to attempt to claim you have no obligation to accept additional requirements to utilize it.  you haven't thought your position out very thoroughly if that is a vital aspect of your argument. 

No, becuase it does say broadband internet required for online actions actually.

Look at it the other way, Sony don't have to right to take away something they sold to you.  Becuase using your threoy Sony could disable your PS3 from playing Blu-Ray disc's (they never would do that) even though you brought a the PS3 as a Blu Ray player.  I have a PS3 as an Open Platform machine as it was advertised, now through no fault of my own I am lossing what I paid for.

Its against the law in the EU, simply as that.



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

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You guys are crazy, Sony is doing this to better the network, If you bought a PS3 to only use the other OS, then that is even crazier. They can't win no matter what, If the PS3 gets hacked and you get a curupted update , and your PS3 dies, your gonna bitch, they are fixing this problem now, so this does not happen and people still bitch, there is no winning. I am all for a more secure network, I use my Ps3 for games, dvd, bluray, texting, viewing and storing movies, photos, i am more then happy.



I partitioned the 10 g for linux years ago when I upgraded my PS3's hard drive to 250 g, but never have installed linux. I wanted linux for: MAME, Firefox and shoutcast support. When will Sony get around to fixing the browser and adding shoutcast? But then there's no MAME. Looks like I'll just go to 'plan b', which is buy a cheap $200 asus ion based 30 watt pc for the tv, which would also be able to run some other games and apps (Google Earth) and also play the DVD iso's on my 1t hard drive presently hooked up to a mediagate.



dirkd2323 said:
You guys are crazy, Sony is doing this to better the network, If you bought a PS3 to only use the other OS, then that is even crazier. They can't win no matter what, If the PS3 gets hacked and you get a curupted update , and your PS3 dies, your gonna bitch, they are fixing this problem now, so this does not happen and people still bitch, there is no winning. I am all for a more secure network, I use my Ps3 for games, dvd, bluray, texting, viewing and storing movies, photos, i am more then happy.


Wow, you didn't even read the OP did you!

Losing OOS to fight piracy is fine by me so long as I get something in return for my loss.  I brought an Open Platform machine, now Sony want to take that away.  I don't want to see the PS3 hacked, but I don't want to be robbed.

So like I said in the OP, its fine if they take the OS option so long as they give something in return.



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

raygun said:
I partitioned the 10 g for linux years ago when I upgraded my PS3's hard drive to 250 g, but never have installed linux. I wanted linux for: MAME, Firefox and shoutcast support. When will Sony get around to fixing the browser and adding shoutcast? But then there's no MAME. Looks like I'll just go to 'plan b', which is buy a cheap $200 asus ion based 30 watt pc for the tv, which would also be able to run some other games and apps (Google Earth) and also play the DVD iso's on my 1t hard drive presently hooked up to a mediagate.


Er what?  No Linux MAME?  Look here: http://gmameui.sourceforge.net/



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

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This may be off topic, but didn't Nintendo remove support of playback of several media file formats on the Wii with a firmware update?

does anyone know?



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

only777 said:
strunge said:
only777 said:
Ok people that say there is not a case here are wrong. When I brought the machine, it was advertised as a machine that included online gaming and open platform. Both are STILL on there website, I don't need to point out online gaming as a feature but heres the open platform part:
http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html
If I lose either one of those things then Sony has broken an EU law which is:

· be fit for the purpose which the consumer requires them and which was made known to the seller at the time of purchase.

Now EU law overides any companys TOS or EULA, so thats is that argument out the window.
I use linux (Ubuntu) on my PS3, but I'm a fair man. I'll let Sony take it away to keep the PS3 piracy free.
But I want something back, all Fat owners have been robbed otherwise. I paid for this feature, by law you can't take it way.
Now I don't need a good lawer, becuase in the UK we have a thing called Trading Standards (and watchdog) which do these things for you.
If you think what I'm saying is correct and fair, then join my facebook group about it so I can have a few voices behind me before I take it has far as trading Standards.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=110549712296723

except the online function is a function that requires additional components and agreements -- you still have to agree to specific terms to use it and if you don't you choose not to access it.  the option isn't a feature Sony has to provide free of regulations as you are dishonestly attempting to portray it as.  by your logic, I can sue Sony if I don't have an internet connection because the system says I can play online but does not state on the package that I have to provide an additional component to do so  -- my own internet connection. 

online play is clearly provided as an optional feature that requires additional acceptance on your part, and now you want to attempt to claim you have no obligation to accept additional requirements to utilize it.  you haven't thought your position out very thoroughly if that is a vital aspect of your argument. 

No, becuase it does say broadband internet required for online actions actually.

Look at it the other way, Sony don't have to right to take away something they sold to you.  Becuase using your threoy Sony could disable your PS3 from playing Blu-Ray disc's (they never would do that) even though you brought a the PS3 as a Blu Ray player.  I have a PS3 as an Open Platform machine as it was advertised, now through no fault of my own I am lossing what I paid for.

Its against the law in the EU, simply as that.

you keep missing the vital point -- they aren't taking away the function.  you aren't reuquired to download it.  if you choose to nt download it, your machine will remain in the same form and function as when you purchased it and will allow you to use it with only the features it included in your purchase.  you want to absolve yourself of that choice and say Sony owes you for additional features but you aren't obligated to adhere to the ToS that you have to agree to to obtain them.  that's dishonest.

don't update your firmware, that's fine.  but to voluntarily do so and then complain that Sonhy removied a feature that you volunteered to remove yourself by updating it with full knowledge of what it would do is utterly ridiculous.



strunge said:

 

you keep missing the vital point -- they aren't taking away the function.  you aren't reuquired to download it.  if you choose to nt download it, your machine will remain in the same form and function as when you purchased it and will allow you to use it with only the features it included in your purchase.  you want to absolve yourself of that choice and say Sony owes you for additional features but you aren't obligated to adhere to the ToS that you have to agree to to obtain them.  that's dishonest.

don't update your firmware, that's fine.  but to voluntarily do so and then complain that Sonhy removied a feature that you volunteered to remove yourself by updating it with full knowledge of what it would do is utterly ridiculous.


Ok, I don't see how you don't understand.  I'll take apart what you said.

strunge said: you keep missing the vital point -- they aren't taking away the function

My reply: Of course they are taking away a function, they are taking away the whole Open Platform aspect of the machine.

strunge said: you aren't reuquired to download it.  if you choose to nt download it, your machine will remain in the same form and function as when you purchased it

My Reply: I am required to download it if I stil want to access the PSN.  Also, my machine will NOT function the same as when I brought it, becuase when I brought it, the PS3 was Open Platform and I could access the PSN.

strunge said: you want to absolve yourself of that choice and say Sony owes you for additional features but you aren't obligated to adhere to the ToS that you have to agree to to obtain them. that's dishonest.

My reply: Terms of service (TOS) that a company creates are not recognised as Law when they contradict EU Law no matter what a big company will have you belive.  The Law is "* be fit for the purpose which the consumer requires them and which was made known to the seller at the time of purchase", it doesnt matter what the TOS says becuase what Sony have done is goes against the Law. 

By your thinking, Sony in threoy could block the use of Blu ray films on the PS3 becuase they change the Operating Systems functions like it says they can in the TOS.  If they done that Sony would have the shit sued out of them.  This is the same thing.  Sony are forcing customers to pick one of two services that was made known at the time of purchase.  Maybe the law is different in your counrty, but in Europe you just can't do it.



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

only777 said:
strunge said:

 

you keep missing the vital point -- they aren't taking away the function.  you aren't reuquired to download it.  if you choose to nt download it, your machine will remain in the same form and function as when you purchased it and will allow you to use it with only the features it included in your purchase.  you want to absolve yourself of that choice and say Sony owes you for additional features but you aren't obligated to adhere to the ToS that you have to agree to to obtain them.  that's dishonest.

don't update your firmware, that's fine.  but to voluntarily do so and then complain that Sonhy removied a feature that you volunteered to remove yourself by updating it with full knowledge of what it would do is utterly ridiculous.


Ok, I don't see how you don't understand.  I'll take apart what you said.

strunge said: you keep missing the vital point -- they aren't taking away the function

My reply: Of course they are taking away a function, they are taking away the whole Open Platform aspect of the machine.

strunge said: you aren't reuquired to download it.  if you choose to nt download it, your machine will remain in the same form and function as when you purchased it

My Reply: I am required to download it if I stil want to access the PSN.  Also, my machine will NOT function the same as when I brought it, becuase when I brought it, the PS3 was Open Platform and I could access the PSN.

strunge said: you want to absolve yourself of that choice and say Sony owes you for additional features but you aren't obligated to adhere to the ToS that you have to agree to to obtain them. that's dishonest.

My reply: Terms of service (TOS) that a company creates are not recognised as Law when they contradict EU Law no matter what a big company will have you belive.  The Law is "* be fit for the purpose which the consumer requires them and which was made known to the seller at the time of purchase", it doesnt matter what the TOS says becuase what Sony have done is goes against the Law. 

By your thinking, Sony in threoy could block the use of Blu ray films on the PS3 becuase they change the Operating Systems functions like it says they can in the TOS.  If they done that Sony would have the shit sued out of them.  This is the same thing.  Sony are forcing customers to pick one of two services that was made known at the time of purchase.  Maybe the law is different in your counrty, but in Europe you just can't do it.

ya but it's just like any other product. you need to agree to their terms in order to use the product. if you don't agree, you can't use the product.

same with this firmware update. you need to agree to the terms of the new update. if you don't, you don't get access to the service.

now, provided you do agree to the new terms (which totally disregards all previous agreements - it's one of the terms you agreed to when you bought the ps3, look it up) you have now agreed to allow sony to remove the feature. and since it's stated you own none of the features provided to you, you have no right to the other os feature anymore since you have nullified the original terms that stated you had a right to it.

what strunge was saying is you are not obligated to update, just like you are not obligated to agree to any other terms for any other product. but obviously then you can't use the product. legally, you are agreeing to the terms and giving them the right to take the feature away. but obviously, you're in a bind where you want the service and you don't want to agree to their new terms of agreement. but what are you gonna do, that's life.

EDIT: and btw i do agree w/ you, if this does turn out to not be an april fool's joke, sony should (would - is what i would've assumed) add other features to make up for it because while they are not doing anything illegal or wrong, companies typically go out of their way to make the customer happy even when he's wrong. the fact theyre not adding any features is what makes it all fishy.




 

  • MKV video support,
  • Multi region PS1 and PS2 support on backwards compatable models
  • ipod support
  • A direct port of Firefox used on Linux platforms with full flash support, better GUI, and a vast array of plug-ins
  • NTFS HDD support

 

These are easy things to do for Sony and I think many people would feel that gaining these but losing the other OS would be a fair trade off. If they are essy things to do, why havent they done it yet?  I really wonder about this. Maybe they dont want to make it very easy for people to download movies from internet and promote bluray and stuff