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The Official US Politics OT

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sundin13 said:

So moving on from this nonsense, what does everybody think about Trump dragging out the anti-semetic "Dual loyalty" trope again?

You assume that after it was decided and agreed by everyone that Snoopy isn't engaging in good faith that people would stop talking to him and move on from this nonsense. That was very silly of you.

The dual loyalty trope coming out was pretty shocking even for Trump, but with all his bizarre ramblings of late, and his documented worsening slurring of words, I'm thinking his brain is actually melting down from all the stress, he's developing dementia, and the anti-Semitism coming out full force is just a product of his filter being completely gone due to the brain damage, allowing the white supremacist narcissist sociopath we all knew was there through coded language to just come out in the open.



Snoopy said:
SpokenTruth said:

Snoopy, please provide:


1). Evidence that Democrats intentionally "increase gun violence, poverty, and broken families so they become more reliant on the government and give them more votes".
2). Evidence that Democratic mayors "move their problems from one city to the next".

Failure to adequately address these claims of yours will result in a majority consensus among us that you are either intentionally lying or willfully ignorant. This is your opportunity to quell these assertions.

1. Already proven it to you by showing credible sources of Liberal ran cities have the highest gun violence and people in poverty. If you know your policies aren't working, why keep pushing it? Because it will make them rely on government handouts which mean they will vote democrats to make sure the gravy train doesn't end.

2. When a city gets worse, people have to move due to lack of jobs and money. So they go to another city with a lot of jobs to repeat the same mistakes as before. Heavy business regulations and more taxes on hard-working citizens.

1). You didn't prove it's an intentional policy.  You have not proven they are intentionally increasing gun violence (didn't Chicago ban guns outright?) with the purpose of getting people to continue to vote Democrat. You didn't provide any data on poverty at all.  You didn't provide any data on broken families at all.

2). Now you are saying 'people move'. Before you said mayors themselves move the problem from their city to other cities.

You have one more opportunity to quell the assertions laid out against you. 

sundin13 said:

So moving on from this nonsense, what does everybody think about Trump dragging out the anti-semetic "Dual loyalty" trope again?

*sigh*.

In just 24 hours, the US President:

1). Canceled a trip to Denmark because the Prime Minister told Trump that Greenland was not for sale.

2). Used an anti-semetic Jews must be loyal to Israel dog whistle to appeal to his evangelical base.

3). Accepted the idea that he is anointed as the second coming of God and King of Israel.

4). Called himself "The Chosen One" to take on China in a trade war that he claimed isn't his.

5). Bowed down to his NRA overlords on background checks after saying we needed them last week.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

Most policies that affect you is your local policies.

But when the entire country, rural and urban are seeing similar trends, it's almost impossible to be due to local policies.  

Snoopy said:

1. Already proven it to you by showing credible sources of Liberal ran cities have the highest gun violence and people in poverty. If you know your policies aren't working, why keep pushing it? Because it will make them rely on government handouts which mean they will vote democrats to make sure the gravy train doesn't end.

2. When a city gets worse, people have to move due to lack of jobs and money. So they go to another city with a lot of jobs to repeat the same mistakes as before. Heavy business regulations and more taxes on hard-working citizens.

1.  False, you gave a couple of cherry picked examples, while ignoring other Liberal ran cities that do much better.  

1B.  the policies themselves work fine.  Most of the guns that are used in crimes in Chicago for example, are brought in from other areas without those policies.  

1C.  How people go into poverty is complicated.  People love pointing at California as an example of how liberal policies cause homelessness, but the reality is that the reason housing is so expensive there is because the state isn't building enough houses.  The reason why they aren't building enough houses, is because people don't want the houses there so they vote for people to prevent housing.  

So in California's case, the reason for poverty isn't because economically they are failing, it is essentially the opposite.  It's doing so well that people are moving in, but people don't want more people to move in.

2.  You're claiming that the reasons why jobs get lost is exclusively due to local liberal policies (regulations, taxes), that's pretty nonsensical.

And I'm sure you're unconvinced about Detroit, despite the fact that during the 1950's and up till 1962, when the Auto industry in Detroit was falling on its face, that those are somehow Democratic policy mistakes, despite a Republican being in charge.  

1. The '90s was one of the worse eras in violent crimes. When Republicans took over in the early 2000's we have seen huge improvements. However, it mainly changed for the better when local government change mayors and Democrats started to see the error of their ways.

2. Like I said many times before, market changes. For example, HSN was huge, but now is becoming less relevant in Amazon's world. A lot of people lost their jobs due to HSN layoffs and moved elsewhere for a career. However, doesn't mean the city HSN operates in will or should fail. 

Poverty seems to be a Democrat ran problem for the most part nowadays.

Also, houses are expensive because we let people take out ridiculous loans that they will not be able to pay. And of course, the federal government will bail the banks out again.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 22 August 2019

SpokenTruth said:

*sigh*.

In just 24 hours, the US President:

1). Canceled a trip to Denmark because the Prime Minister told Trump that Greenland was not for sale.

2). Used an anti-semetic Jews must be loyal to Israel dog whistle to appeal to his evangelical base.

3). Accepted the idea that he is anointed as the second coming of God and King of Israel.

4). Called himself "The Chosen One" to take on China in a trade war that he claimed isn't his.

5). Bowed down to his NRA overlords on background checks after saying we needed them last week.

Pretty shitty day, haha.

While this isn't the first time Trump has used the Dual-Loyalty trope, it is kind of hilarious(?) that he drops anti-Semetic tropes during his attempt to say how great he is for Jews. Like, c'mon....



SpokenTruth said:
Quick thought.

If guns don't kill people, people do.....then guns don't protect people, people do.

Your move, NRA.

So if they make no difference either way, we can buy and sell guns like we buy and sell most other goods? Awesome!



Snoopy said:

1. It's United States fault? Fine, then tell Mexico to keep their people in their Country and pay more for security on the border. However, we all know it's because guns are banned in Mexico. If it isn't the United States, they will buy it off another Country.

2. Yes, and Detroit failed miserably during the 70's. They didn't stop any of the riots and forced productive people to leave the City. Kind of like what's happening in California (Democrat stronghold). Also, the other cities you mentioned aren't doing great either. San Francisco streets are being littered with human poop due to the homeless crisis.

3. Yes because people aren't getting enough money from social programs. Not to mention all the people who are educated like doctors will leave because if you are educated and have a nice career, why would you stay in Detroit lol.

1.   Mexico isn't sending their people to this country.  We spend a lot of money for the border.  

>guns are banned in Mexico

Factually incorrect.  They have restrictions on guns, but guns are not banned. 

2.  By the time that a Democrat became mayor of Detroit, Detroit had lost nearly 200,000 people from the collapse in their local economy.  

If the current state of Detroit is down to the local policies, then the most you can say is that Republicans caused the collapse, but Democrats were unable to fix it.  

And again, a big part of the reason for California's housing issue, is they literally aren't building enough houses.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_housing_shortage

Also those cities are doing well by the standards listed in your article about how Detroit isn't doing well.  So if that list is void, then so is your article you shared.  


Addition:

I will say it again. These are complicated issues.  Economy, crime, etc.  Specialists will spend upwards of a decade of their life studying each of these subjects.  And you think you've got it all figured out from cherry picked examples.  

Any comment that "Democrats are bad", "Any taxes are bad", "Any regulations are bad", do a disservice to yourself and the conversation.  Treating every tax or regulation as being identical is dishonest at best.  Thinking people are bad because they don't have the same political beliefs as you doesn't make for good discussion.  



the-pi-guy said:

Snoopy said:

1. It's United States fault? Fine, then tell Mexico to keep their people in their Country and pay more for security on the border. However, we all know it's because guns are banned in Mexico. If it isn't the United States, they will buy it off another Country.

2. Yes, and Detroit failed miserably during the 70's. They didn't stop any of the riots and forced productive people to leave the City. Kind of like what's happening in California (Democrat stronghold). Also, the other cities you mentioned aren't doing great either. San Francisco streets are being littered with human poop due to the homeless crisis.

3. Yes because people aren't getting enough money from social programs. Not to mention all the people who are educated like doctors will leave because if you are educated and have a nice career, why would you stay in Detroit lol.

1.   Mexico isn't sending their people to this country.  We spend a lot of money for the border.  

>guns are banned in Mexico

Factually incorrect.  They have restrictions on guns, but guns are not banned. 

2.  By the time that a Democrat became mayor of Detroit, Detroit had lost nearly 200,000 people from the collapse in their local economy.  

If the current state of Detroit is down to the local policies, then the most you can say is that Republicans caused the collapse, but Democrats were unable to fix it.  

And again, a big part of the reason for California's housing issue, is they literally aren't building enough houses.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_housing_shortage

Also those cities are doing well by the standards listed in your article about how Detroit isn't doing well.  So if that list is void, then so is your article you shared.  


Addition:

I will say it again. These are complicated issues.  Economy, crime, etc.  Specialists will spend upwards of a decade of their life studying each of these subjects.  And you think you've got it all figured out from cherry picked examples.  

Any comment that "Democrats are bad", "Any taxes are bad", "Any regulations are bad", do a disservice to yourself and the conversation.  Treating every tax or regulation as being identical is dishonest at best.  Thinking people are bad because they don't have the same political beliefs as you doesn't make for good discussion.  

1. It pretty much is banned, they are so strict with gun laws it is ridiculous. You will have to go through so many hoops just to obtain a gun legally to defend your family from corrupt people. However, it didn't work too well now, did it?

2. Again, every city sees growth and decline due to market shifts. However, Democrats had control of Detroit for 50 years and made it worse. I mean Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed to hell and it looks a lot better than Detroit despite Japan having a rough time economically. Our Democrats/Liberals have screwed up badly.

3. Those cities are doing well for a liberal city, but still not doing well overall I'm afraid. Sorry, that I expect a lot more from these cities, but liberals will settle for less. That is why they like participation trophies.

No, it isn't a complicated issue. When Trump and Republican congress lifted regulations on jobs and lower taxes, the unemployment rate went down and the economy is now doing pretty well. In fact, unemployment been at the lowest since I was born. Companies want to create jobs, but we put up way too many barriers.



Snoopy said:

When Trump and Republican congress lifted regulations on jobs and lower taxes, the unemployment rate went down

This again?  Ok, I'm going to show you something.  And you're either going to learn from it or ignore it (again).  If you ignore it again, you will be labeled as being willfully ignorant and your standing for debate will remain tarnished.

Trump, his tax cuts and deregulation didn't do anything different than the trend it was already going in.  The rate of descent is the same.  If his policies had a direct impact, the rate of decent would have increased. 

You are either being lied to and accepting it because it feeds your cognitive bias or you do know the facts and are intentionally lying out of cognitive dissonance.

KLAMarine said:
SpokenTruth said:
Quick thought.

If guns don't kill people, people do.....then guns don't protect people, people do.

Your move, NRA.

So if they make no difference either way, we can buy and sell guns like we buy and sell most other goods? Awesome!

Yep, awesome.  We can also ban them all and it;s all good.

Last edited by SpokenTruth - on 22 August 2019

Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
Snoopy said:

When Trump and Republican congress lifted regulations on jobs and lower taxes, the unemployment rate went down

This again?  Ok, I'm going to show you something.  And you're either going to learn from it or ignore it (again).  If you ignore it again, you will be labeled as being willfully ignorant and your standing for debate will remain tarnished.

Trump, his tax cuts and deregulation didn't do anything different than the trend it was already going in.  The rate of descent is the same.  If his policies had a direct impact, the rate of decent would have increased. 

You are either being lied to and accepting it because it feeds your cognitive bias or you do know the facts and are intentionally lying out of cognitive dissonance.

KLAMarine said:

So if they make no difference either way, we can buy and sell guns like we buy and sell most other goods? Awesome!

Yep, awesome.  We can also ban them all and it;s all good.

"Yep, awesome.  We can also ban them all and it;s all good."

>But wouldn't that then strengthen the unregulated firearm black market?



KLAMarine said:

"Yep, awesome.  We can also ban them all and it;s all good."

>But wouldn't that then strengthen the unregulated firearm black market?

I'm starting to think you missed the point.  I'll start over.

The NRA loves to state the following rhetoric to the point it has become a mantra for many, "Guns don't kill people, people do."

The converse then must also be true, "Guns don't protect people, people do."

The end sum of each of these statements suggests the cause of death and protection against death is people and the gun is therefore irrelevant in either case.  

The point is that if you proclaim that people are the problem (not gun), then you must also claim people are the solution (not gun). It's basically a nullification of the NRA rhetoric.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."