Soundwave said:
Nuvendil said:
If you think Wilt was incompetent, sub-par, or even just pretty good at defense, you clearly haven't done research beyond the usual simplified history people buy into. Wilt was an insanely dominant force at both ends and could shut down anyone. He was also simultaneously probably the cleanest defender of his day, never fouling out once. Honestly, he is probably the most remarkable physical specimen in basketball history.
His lack of championships though can be explained by being drafted onto the worst team in the league and spending most of his career playing against the most dominant dynasty in the history of team sports, against a player who lead his team to 11 out of 13 championships and has a perfect 11 out of 11 record for deciding games inthe finals (he was injured for most of the playoffs his second year and they didn't make the finals one time). Wilt Chamberlain is the only player to ever beat Bill Russell in a straight, fair matchup. The reality is that if he had played in any other era, his dominance would have been greater. He just happened to play against the 56 to 69 Celtics, the greatest dynasty ever.
And Shaq never had a shot at best ever. Not only is Wilt better than him, I would put Jerry West and Elgin Baylor over him too. Along with Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Oscar Robinson, Lebron James, Magic Johnson. He's an excellent center with impressive physicality. He's top 10 probably and yeah, he could have been maybe top 5, but at best he would still be behind Wilt, Kareem, and Jordan.
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Woulda, coulda, shoulda, for Wilt. His two titles (and zero as the no.1 option) are what he has and that's what he's judged on.
Lets be honest too. Shaq would fucking murder the 1960s NBA, they'd have to institute some kind of rule to stop him from dunking on people after a certain point.
Magic has mystique but if I'm honest, I think Kobe is better than him (and Bird too).
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Well if that's how you want to judge greatest rather than through analysus, than Bill Russel has 5 MVPs, 2 NCAA championships, an Olympic gold, 11 championships, the man is the most decorated champion in professional team sports. You can't say "lul 2 ringz" to handwave Wilt and then get all analytical to exclude Bill Russell. It's either a battle of lists and rings or analysis. Pikc one.
No, Shaq would not. He doesn't have the speed or endurance to keep up. Wilt, Russel, Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy, there were plenty of very strong, physical, fast centers back then who were far better adapted to the league's fast pace, especially when you consider the league was far smaller, concentrating the talent so you had far fewer canon fodder teams that existed to be stepped on by the teams actually worth anything. Again, more myths. You can have Shaq, I'll take Wilt over him any day of the week. He's faster, stronger, has a much better vertical, better defense, and has inhuman endurance as illustrated by the fact he averaged more minutes per game than the total minutes of regulation one season. And that was in a league dominated by fast pace, run and gun play. Should, I would put Bill against Shaq.
As for Kobe, I would put Magic over him due to his very unique flexibility as a point guard. Shoot, I would put Jerry West over Kobe, seeing as how he accomplished what he did as an undersized guard in a league designed for highly physical play that would put him at a serious disadvantage. Oh and he also had no 3 point line to use.