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Forums - General Discussion - Pope condemns gay equality laws ahead of first UK visit

Alterego-X said:

Most Christians would probably argue that Christ's death ended the Old Testament, fulfilled the law, and started the salvation by grace. As Paul says:

Acts 13 :39:"And by Him (Jesus) all that believe are justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the Law of Moses" 

 

So these are just old legal writings for ancient jews, and we should move on, the only rules still active are the ones about how we should love our neighbour, and our God, and stuff like that.

 

Though, Paul also says this:

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

 

And again, one could argue that these are just rules for ancient romans, and we should again move on. 

Paul saying that is a good point, but it runs directly in counter to what Christ says on the subject:

Matthew 5:18-19
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus was a prety fundamentalist Jew, even if he was a fairly radical political activist.



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outlawauron said:
FootballFan said:
tombi123 said:
Tyrannical said:
I wish they could someday cure it. That would be the easiest solution.

Unfortunately there is no cure for Catholicism.


this

Tyrannical trolls gay people and gets bans. These people troll Catholic. I see that's ok.


A ban isn't just the result of what is being said, it also depends on who is saying it. Why do you think Rol hasn't been perma'd by now?

Alterego-X said:
damkira said:
themanwithnoname said:
Great to see it's not ok for someone to call homosexuality a disease, but it's ok for people to call Catholicism one? Another fantastic example of the fantastic moderation we have here! Gotta love how the Catholics are about the only group in the world that people have free reign to attack and bash without anyone giving two flying craps.

The pope didn't promote aids in Africa either. Just another example of people taking stuff he says way out of context for the sole purpose of serving their own agenda or (this wouldn't happen mind you) bash Catholicism. Absolutely shocking.

The Pope DOES promote AIDS in Africa by not enouraging contraception. The impoverished nations in Africa need contraception just as badly as they need food.

 

If there are people who actively spread AIDS around in Africa because they took the Pope that seriously, they are probably doing it wrong, because afaik the Pope supports monogamy too, and that would also stop the above AIDS spreading. 

 The problem is that monogamy isn't stopping it. Monogamous couples get kids who are already infected by Hiv the moment they are born who will, if they survive it, spread it on later.

Really, there is only one solution to hiv/aids for as long as there is no cure - segregation or large scale quarantine of hiv/aids infected people. And this isn't even feasible.



The Doctor will see you now  Promoting Lesbianism -->

                              

Esmoreit said:
outlawauron said:
FootballFan said:
tombi123 said:
Tyrannical said:
I wish they could someday cure it. That would be the easiest solution.

Unfortunately there is no cure for Catholicism.


this

Tyrannical trolls gay people and gets bans. These people troll Catholic. I see that's ok.


A ban isn't just the result of what is being said, it also depends on who is saying it. Why do you think Rol hasn't been perma'd by now?

So? do you think it is any less offensive?



dsister44 said:
Esmoreit said:
outlawauron said:
FootballFan said:
tombi123 said:
Tyrannical said:
I wish they could someday cure it. That would be the easiest solution.

Unfortunately there is no cure for Catholicism.


this

Tyrannical trolls gay people and gets bans. These people troll Catholic. I see that's ok.


A ban isn't just the result of what is being said, it also depends on who is saying it. Why do you think Rol hasn't been perma'd by now?

So? do you think it is any less offensive?

define the two things first, to say something is equally offensive to something else, you have to say why

can you even compare the two?



SciFiBoy said:
dsister44 said:
Esmoreit said:

A ban isn't just the result of what is being said, it also depends on who is saying it. Why do you think Rol hasn't been perma'd by now?

So? do you think it is any less offensive?

define the two things first, to say something is equally offensive to something else, you have to say why

can you even compare the two?

I was commenting on what Esmoreit was saying. About it not only being the thing they said but also the person who said it



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dsister44 said:
SciFiBoy said:
dsister44 said:
Esmoreit said:

A ban isn't just the result of what is being said, it also depends on who is saying it. Why do you think Rol hasn't been perma'd by now?

So? do you think it is any less offensive?

define the two things first, to say something is equally offensive to something else, you have to say why

can you even compare the two?

I was commenting on what Esmoreit was saying. About it now only being the thing they said but also the person.

sure, but do you see my point, theyre trying to compare how offensive it is to "troll" things, thats fine, but what youre comparing is the issue here, homosexuality is an orientation that is decided by your genes, catholocism is a belief system which is unproven that people choose to belive in, how would you compare the two and which would you say it is worse to offend and why?



SciFiBoy said:
dsister44 said:
SciFiBoy said:
dsister44 said:
Esmoreit said:

A ban isn't just the result of what is being said, it also depends on who is saying it. Why do you think Rol hasn't been perma'd by now?

So? do you think it is any less offensive?

define the two things first, to say something is equally offensive to something else, you have to say why

can you even compare the two?

I was commenting on what Esmoreit was saying. About it now only being the thing they said but also the person.

sure, but do you see my point, theyre trying to compare how offensive it is to "troll" things, thats fine, but what youre comparing is the issue here, homosexuality is an orientation that is decided by your genes, catholocism is a belief system which is unproven that people choose to belive in, how would you compare the two and which would you say it is worse to offend and why?

I am sure some of the gaymers here were offended by Tyrannical's post. As I am sure that some of the Catholics on this site were offended by Tombi's post. Yes, I do think Tyrannical's post was worse, but two wrongs do not make a right 

Edit: Also I think it goes without saying that I am not against Tyrannical's ban. He deserved it, and I am glad he got it =)



Alterego-X said:

Not wearing a condom because the church says so IS a case of "do what the church says". 

If anyone is having sex with AIDS victims, and spreads it to various other people, while not using a condom because the Pope says so, that individual is only using what the Pope says as poor excuse anyways.

 

"You can't stop sex"?  Probably there are several hundred millions of monogamous couples not using condoms, who are A LOT less likely to get STDs than people who use a condom while having sex with various people, including AIDS infected. 

 

For the record, I don't agree with the Pope about condoms being evil, (amongst various other things), I'm just saying that what the Pope does isn't evil either, he is just trying to communicate a set of ideals, and its not his fault if some retards manage to cherry-pick some of them in the single combination that is the most like to kill them. 

“The truth is not in condoms or clean needles. These are lies, lies perpetrated often for political reasons on the part of public officials…by some health care professionals who believe they have nothing else to offer persons with AIDS…lies told by often well-meaning counselors.”

Cardinal John O’Connor, accusing health care professionals of dishonesty in promoting condoms [“Pope Condemns Bias Against Victims of AIDS,” Washington Post, November 16, 1989].

“Every condom sold sends the buyer to acquire the AIDS virus.”

Fr. Gerald Magera Iga, in a campaign urging condom sellers in Uganda to burn up their stocks [Comtex newswire, January 25, 1999].

“Using a condom to protect oneself against HIV amounts to playing Russian roulette.”

Fr. Jacques Suaudeau, of the Vatican Council for the Family, in the Catholic journalMedicina e Morale [Our Sunday Visitor, Nov. 2, 1997].

“Use of this product is harmful to health.”

Condom warning label suggested by Mexico City Archbishop Norberto Rivera Carrera [La Jornada (Mexico), August 29, 1997].

“[W]idespread and indiscriminate promotion of condoms [is] an immoral and misguided weapon in our battle against HIV-AIDS. …[C]ondoms may even be one of the main reasons for the spread of HIV-AIDS.”

From the text of a statement issued by the bishops of South Africa following their semiannual meeting, where they considered a change in their official condoms policy in response to the HIV/AIDS pandemic [Karen DeYoung, “AIDS challenges religious leaders,”Washington Post, August 13, 2001].

 

This is just a quick sample of some of the things that people in positions of authority say at the CAtholic church. It's an abuse of athority that has most assuredly caused desease and suffering. People believe what the church says, so they have a responsibility to protect those people. But it's quite clear that they're more concerned with their perverted view of morality than with whether people live. Another example would be how the church is so concerned about the potentially lifesaving HPV vaccine, because the thought that girls might have sex before marriage is far worse than the thought that they might die of cervical cancer.

There are few more shameful organizations in the western world right now.

 



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

dsister44 said:
SciFiBoy said:
dsister44 said:
SciFiBoy said:
dsister44 said:
Esmoreit said:

A ban isn't just the result of what is being said, it also depends on who is saying it. Why do you think Rol hasn't been perma'd by now?

So? do you think it is any less offensive?

define the two things first, to say something is equally offensive to something else, you have to say why

can you even compare the two?

I was commenting on what Esmoreit was saying. About it now only being the thing they said but also the person.

sure, but do you see my point, theyre trying to compare how offensive it is to "troll" things, thats fine, but what youre comparing is the issue here, homosexuality is an orientation that is decided by your genes, catholocism is a belief system which is unproven that people choose to belive in, how would you compare the two and which would you say it is worse to offend and why?

I am sure some of the gaymers here were offended by Tyrannical's post. As I am sure that some of the Catholics on this site were offended by Tombi's post. Yes, I do think Tyrannical's post was worse, but two wrongs do not make a right 

Edit: Also I think it goes without saying that I am not against Tyrannical's ban. He deserved it, and I am glad he got it =)

I'm not a mod but it seems that person has a history of bigotty including racism and homophobia. Hes been banned several time before.

 



Actually I have to side with the Pope on this one. As an atheist who believes in gay rights I interpreted it as the Church does not want the government to tell them how to run their institution. After all, separation of church and state goes both ways (lol).



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