You're the one who started it by assuming you know what I have or have not played in the past.

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation. If I can't get you to acknowledge what "role-playing" means by its very definition (I'm not going to argue with Webster but you obviously have no problems doing so), I see no point in continuing.

This really does come down to what defines an RPG. Those factors are essential in an RPG, or are they? I would say they are but then JRPGs don't adhere to this formula 9 times out of 10. Is Heavy Rain an RPG? Or Farenheit (Indigo Prophecy to some)? By your definition they'd be more an RPG than any of the Final Fantasy games. You might think the traditional aspects are unnecessary, but they are what has defined RPGs for a very longtime now, and are actually what makes the game more fun for certain people. The "stats" are less of an issue in a game like Mass Effect 2 where shooting is very important as it's more about the player's shooting ability than improving your characters stats and overall strategy, but some people still want them.

I have not played Indigo Prophecy but there are dozens of other games that contain RPG elements... Grand Theft Auto, for example. Do I consider a linear action game an RPG? Absolutely not. There's no choice given to the player and the entire story is strictly defined by the developer. There's not much of a "role" involved in that kind of game.

Just because games have RPG elements do not necessarily mean they are an RPG. To me, the focus of the game has to be on "role-playing" for it to be an RPG... which Mass Effect obviously does. The primary component in the game is the dialogue system and player choice. Therefore, it's an RPG. Shit, I don't even consider some JRPGs to truly be RPGs. They're just grind/lootfests. That doesn't do it for me but obviously, others like it so, sure, call them RPGs. I don't really care.

And that's fine if you like those components. I have no problems with that. Personally, I don't... where I disagree is how some of you are saying Mass Effect is "not an RPG" or it's "watered down" simply because BioWare chose not to use those components in favor of going a different route with ME2. It doesn't make it less of an RPG, it just makes it different. And some of you don't like that difference. More power to you but don't go around trying to diminish its role-playing elements just because it doesn't suit your preferences.

I certainly hope Desolitude was not banned for his participation in this thread. That would be a catastrophic error on DKII's part, but I don't know if that's the case. The way I see it, half the people who joined this thread just to bash him for having an opinion should be banned. Half the comments on the first page are trolling..would you mods like me to point all of them out?

I haven't played ME2 yet, but my friend is really into the whole ME deal, so I might check it out. I've been somewhat interested in this game the more I hear about it, which is why I decided to read here. This won't deter me from trying to game at all, but it will make me pay attention more closely when I do.

I agree with Rocketpig.

My fiancee really wants to play the Mass Effect series. However, she is an RPG vet - plays tons of RPGs, and isn't big on TPS games. I want her to be able to enjoy it. ME1 is a better example of whats do-able in the series since the action elements aren't as huge. But for ME2, I worry a little because of the whole limited ammo issue.

The real problem isn't people calling it a watered down RPG. By the definition of an RPG which has been established by the majority for a very long time, it is watered down. The problem is that you have made your own definition of what an RPG means and have passed it on as fact. But I suggest a compromise. When I stated that it was a watered down RPG I was referring to those elements which define what an RPG is to the majority of people. I had no idea you would have your own idea of what an RPG is and then use that perception to assume that what I was talking about was somehow the same as your own perception. I suggest that you assume when others are talking about an RPG, they are specifically talking about these factors from which we have discussed and I shall do the same for you and all two other people on planet earth which might hold the same perception. Deal? :)

Fair enough. By "traditional" standards, it is a watered-down RPG. But that's a big step from it being a "watered-down RPG", period. To me, it fills the true meaning of RPG and I know there are loads of people that agree with me on that (and ironically, this group is heavily populated with pen-and-paper traditionalists). To us, "role-playing" is about your character and his/her choices within a game realm. It's not about inventory, loot, or gear, which my friends and I find to be an evil necessity of pen-and-paper gaming, not its pinnacle. The meat of role-playing to us is interaction, decision-making, and choice, three things Mass Effect does better than any other game I've played. In that regard, it's actually CLOSER to pen-and-paper RPGs than anything else on the market.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's not an RPG but I could understand why some might say it's "watered down" although I prefer the term "refined". As far as I can tell Bioware wanted to bridge a gap and get shooter fans to play something slightly more sophisticated in the storytelling department. To do this however they had to "refine" some of the traditional RPG elements so some RPG fans might not like it as much. I know I would personally like the RPG systems to be more like the original whilst retaining the new shooting dynamics. Overall, I think they bridged the genre gap brilliantlly and I hope the action elements really do improve in the next iteration as the improvement from 1 is really quite something.

The thing is that ME2 actually has several timed events, they're just later in the game to build suspense. Without counting, I can think of four different situations in the game that require the player to do something on a timeline. I know there are others, as well. It's not as if they didn't use a timers for certain segments, they just saved them for use later in the game to ratchet up the intensity.