I agree with all your posts on this so far, but being pedantic have to point out a tiny flaw I think I see here.  I don't think his OP or argument is that the game should be all things to all people, I think he's arguing it should be even more polished in the shooting/action elements to suit him (and his preferences).  Small point, but there you go.  I guess if you want to be all things to all people you have to be Tetris - or something like that!

Personally I think Bioware took it to the wire (or damn close) with ME2.  Any lighter on the RPG streamlining coupled with more action and I'd argue they'd tipped the scales completely out of RPG and a fair bit out off the area of Hybrid RPG into Shooter with some very light RPG.  As you say this is a tough move to make.  They could even gain sales making it more like a shooter, but they'd for sure lose a lot of RPG gamers and would take a lot of flack in the process.

It's a tricky balance, and from what I've seen so far ME2 gets it pretty close to perfect.  Mind you, if they were to 'tune' the combat even further - since let's face it there's a lot of it in ME games - then that's fine, so long as the balance isn't negatively affected.

Your last sentence is confusing me. How on Earth do you consider the RPG elements in ME2 lacking? It offered the most flawless RPG experience I've ever seen... BioWare completely streamlined out the typical RPG nonsense and let the player dive into the story, controlling even some of the smallest aspects of the game through very intuitive dialogue trees. And that's not even bringing up the game imports, which have taken RPGs to an entirely new level.

And not to beat a dead horse, but some of you need to realize that this is primarily an RPG game. You can't expect BioWare to add a TPS component like Gears of War, otherwise the RPG elements will start to suffer by turning it into a non-stop action game. I think too many of you take of the attitude of "Let them have cake" without thinking over just what sacrifices might have to be made to the entire franchise just to suit your personal opinion of what the game should be.

Oh, and I do find it mildly funny that someone rocking a Raiden avatar would be bitching about the shooter elements in an RPG game... One could say the exact same thing about MGS4 if they chose to completely ignore that it's primarily a STEALTH game, not a Gears-type TPS.

Your last sentence is confusing me. How on Earth do you consider the RPG elements in ME2 lacking? It offered the most flawless RPG experience I've ever seen... BioWare completely streamlined out the typical RPG nonsense and let the player dive into the story, controlling even some of the smallest aspects of the game through very intuitive dialogue trees. And that's not even bringing up the game imports, which have taken RPGs to an entirely new level.

And not to beat a dead horse, but some of you need to realize that this is primarily an RPG game. You can't expect BioWare to add a TPS component like Gears of War, otherwise the RPG elements will start to suffer by turning it into a non-stop action game. I think too many of you take of the attitude of "Let them have cake" without thinking over just what sacrifices might have to be made to the entire franchise just to suit your personal opinion of what the game should be.

Oh, and I do find it mildly funny that someone rocking a Raiden avatar would be bitching about the shooter elements in an RPG game... One could say the exact same thing about MGS4 if they chose to completely ignore that it's primarily a STEALTH game, not a Gears-type TPS.

Some people enjoy that "RPG nonsense" though. I know I miss having more detailed character customisation and having a greater control over my weapons and gear all the time. Not too bothered about the lack of loot. These are both aspects of RPGs that are missing or reduced in Mass Effect 2. The story aspect has been done brilliantly but if you only have the story aspects, it stops becomming an RPG and is really an Adventure game like Heavy Rain, Little Big Adventure or Zelda.

So you can't see how it is lacking as an RPG? It's missing most of the things which destinguish RPGs as being RPGs. Or rather it has them, but watered down to almost nothing. Looting has been almost completely taken away, you no longer find weapons or armour which is one of the most fun things about RPGs. Instead now you randomly find minerals or scan planets to upgrade what you have. There is a rare exception to finding other weapons but I've played for 20 hours and have only found 2-3 variations on three weapon types. In addition, you have less customization when leveling up. There is a small level gap and the only thing that you raise stats in are a select few powers. A very select few. The dialouge system is amazing but has little to do with being an RPG. Unless Demon's souls is no longer an RPG, and Indigo Prophecy is. I don't think you understand what makes a game an RPG. Go do some research on Dungeons and Dragons (The father of all RPGs) and then come back and talk to me about something you know about. Because you obviously know NOTHING about what being an RPG means. I agree that the conversation sytem is amazing, if I forget about the fact that all the choices are laid out as either blatantly good and bad with very little gray.

Also, if they are going to make the game more of a tps then an RPG then they at least could have made it a stronger TPS. I'm not the only one who thinks this either, go look at the majority of reviews. They state the same thing. But honestly, I don't see how you can't have a strong RPG that could hold it's ground as a strong TPS. But it's because of fools like  you who refuse to believe its possible that we get games that are only good at each (at best) and not amazing. If they couldn't make mass effect a great shooter when they decided to add those elements into the game they should have left it out.

Finally, I understand why they allowed MGS4 to be played as a shooter. To attempt to draw in new players. But as a long time MGS fans, they never altered the controls to where the game could not be played as the older ones. If you have ADD and played it like gears of war then more power to you. But I played a STEALTH game, and I played it stealthly in the same way I had played each previous iteration, only with a much needed streamlined control. That being said. It fails Just as bad, if not worse, at being a great TPS as Mass Effect 2. The reason for this was to allow the game to play just like the older games to the real fans, which I am very happy for. You could also play the game as an FPS but it failed at that too. All of those things were tacked on to appeal to kids with add but it still plays like an mgs game which makes me happy. A better example of Stealth and TPS coming together is Uncharted 2. That game was on the right track. The game was a great tps action game which allowed the use of stealth. It wasn't perfect and stealth couldn't always be used, but for a majority of the game it could and it worked. And that was just an added feature, it wasn't a tps action/stealth hybrid so much as it was a small implemented feature. If Borderlands had a great story it would have been an amazing FPS/RPG. It could stand on it's own as either.

After all of this, I would like to point out that I'm having great fun with Mass Effect 2 and it currently might rank in my top 3 360 games. I'm loving it. I'm just not blind. The reasons why I love it has nothing to do with it being a great RPG, or even a great TPS. It's only good at either. It's because of the characters, story and the conversation wheel (though lacking depth, is still greatly entertaining). All of those things are what you expect with a great RPG although they do not define an RPG at all. Those aspects are top notch however. If only it was a great rgg, and a great TPS action game then it could have truly been the best of both worlds. And probably the best game ever made.

Some of you need to think outside the box for a moment. Just because to this point RPG games have generally been loot/XP/grind/weapon upgrade heavy does not mean those things DEFINE an RPG. After all, it's called "role-playing". No game in history has filled that definition better than Mass Effect. It puts the story in the hands of the player and allows the player to define their world like no other game in history. Now THAT is role-playing. Just because BioWare didn't use the traditional aspects of RPG games (unnecessary aspects, IMO) doesn't mean the RPG element is "lacking", it just means they went for a kind of role-playing that doesn't suit your preferences. Personally, I think it's the most engaging form of actual role-playing that I've ever seen in a game.

First off, I'm about 98% sure I've spent far more time playing pen-and-paper RPGs than you have but nice way to make the assumption I don't know anything about D&D, Star Wars, Palladium, Rifts, Robotech, TMNT, Ninjas & Superspies, Feng Shui, Bureau 13, or the dozens of other pen-and-paper RPGs I've played over the years. Good job at making yourself look like an ass, though. Kudos.

Second, if you don't see the folly in your statement "The dialouge system is amazing but has little to do with being an RPG." I don't know what to say. By its very definition, that system is the CORE of being an RPG. See, you believe that RPGs are defined by combat where I believe the exact opposite. A good role-playing game is about the moments between combat when the player gets to choose his or her fate, not the moments when a player is grabbing more shit from dead orcs.

You imply that I'm blind to Mass Effect when I'm convinced you're the one who is blind to it because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion of what an RPG "should" be. You can argue the merits of BioWare's choices all you want and I'll respect that but to say that it's "watered down" or "weak" just because they shed parts of the traditional system in favor of immersing the player in non-stop gaming while remaining true to the actual core of what defines an RPG is foolish.