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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Bioware really needs to play more action games before making Mass Effect 3

bobobologna on 01 February 2010
rocketpig said:

It's fair to criticize anything but my point is that the "weaknesses" of the game need to be put into context. No game can be everything to everyone and that's my problem with the OP's post. In a fantasy world, ME2 would be Gears of War on Insane mixed with Deus Ex mixed with the best elements of Fallout.

Reality has different restrictions. No way can a developer make that game, which kind of invalidates complaining about what is generally a strong TPS/action experience melded into an extraordinary RPG game.

I get it.  It's just that people were writing off disolitude's complaint by saying it's an RPG, not an action game.  They were giving excuses, as if an action game/RPG hybrid can't have an excellent action game component.  That's why I quoted your second response to the thread, where you gave reasons why the shooter elements might have been compromised in favor of the game as a whole.



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JaggedSac on 01 February 2010

I agree that the action could be spruced up a bit, and I can see where the suggestion of adding more timers makes, sense, especially in the scenario he stated.

Another thing about the action, and this applies to several TPS games, is the way the battlefields are layed out. Everything seems the same, just the layout and textures are different. The cover is always the same height, size, and shape. I know when enemies are about to pop out because they have obviously set me up some cover. Just a little nit pick.



rocketpig on 01 February 2010
bobobologna said:
rocketpig said:

It's fair to criticize anything but my point is that the "weaknesses" of the game need to be put into context. No game can be everything to everyone and that's my problem with the OP's post. In a fantasy world, ME2 would be Gears of War on Insane mixed with Deus Ex mixed with the best elements of Fallout.

Reality has different restrictions. No way can a developer make that game, which kind of invalidates complaining about what is generally a strong TPS/action experience melded into an extraordinary RPG game.

I get it.  It's just that people were writing off disolitude's complaint by saying it's an RPG, not an action game.  They were giving excuses, as if an action game/RPG hybrid can't have an excellent action game component.  That's why I quoted your second response to the thread, where you gave reasons why the shooter elements might have been compromised in favor of the game as a whole.

And I think they're right in that regard. It's not as if ME2's action is BAD, it's just not on par with the best action experiences available in games whose sole purpose is to provide that non-stop adrenaline experience.

And I think it's rather unfair to complain about that when the game is obviously slanted toward the RPG realm. It's like complaining about God of War because the dialogue isn't as good as a Tim Schaffer game. It DOES have dialogue, right? Therefore, it should be on par with the game writing of Psychonauts because that element of the game is there... It doesn't make much sense.




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bobobologna on 01 February 2010
rocketpig said:
bobobologna said:
rocketpig said:

It's fair to criticize anything but my point is that the "weaknesses" of the game need to be put into context. No game can be everything to everyone and that's my problem with the OP's post. In a fantasy world, ME2 would be Gears of War on Insane mixed with Deus Ex mixed with the best elements of Fallout.

Reality has different restrictions. No way can a developer make that game, which kind of invalidates complaining about what is generally a strong TPS/action experience melded into an extraordinary RPG game.

I get it.  It's just that people were writing off disolitude's complaint by saying it's an RPG, not an action game.  They were giving excuses, as if an action game/RPG hybrid can't have an excellent action game component.  That's why I quoted your second response to the thread, where you gave reasons why the shooter elements might have been compromised in favor of the game as a whole.

And I think they're right in that regard. It's not as if ME2's action is BAD, it's just not on par with the best action experiences available in games whose sole purpose is to provide that non-stop adrenaline experience.

And I think it's rather unfair to complain about that when the game is obviously slanted toward the RPG realm. It's like complaining about God of War because the dialogue isn't as good as a Tim Schaffer game. It DOES have dialogue, right? Therefore, it should be on par with the game writing of Psychonauts because that element of the game is there... It doesn't make much sense.

The difference is that Mass Effect 2 was pimping it's improvements to the TPS/action portions of the game.  They were obviously trying to draw on the Halo/MW2/Gears of War crowd, and said as much in the interview I linked earlier.

Anyways, I'm done arguing this point, I doubt anything either of us says will change the other persons opinion.



rocketpig on 01 February 2010

You haven't played the game, right? I think I remember you saying that earlier... Anyway, the action is actually quite good and is on par with some of the better TPS games around. It's far better than the original game, which lacked a bit in that regard.

But it's not the best, nor could it be, really. Even the battles are above average when compared to a typical action/TPS game, which is amazing considering the other RPG elements the game blends into it.




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.jayderyu on 01 February 2010
disolitude said:

I rented mass effect 1 for an hour and didn't like it, but I picked up Mass Effect 2 after everyone and their dog telling me that action has been greatly improved. I spent about 14 hours with Mass Effect 2 thus far and while it is an improved experience for the action junkie, I find it still somewhat lacking.

oh wow, and here I thought they needed the abstract action combat more to remove the action junkie parts. Simulating the feel of high paced combat is fine, but man action junkies already own the market. If ME moved over to to the shooter market it would probably fracture the market some more and reduce some of it's RP players. No idea if it would increase or decrease sales in the long run.

Anyways in regards to having action in my RPGs, ME style pretty much hits the cap on that. Anymore than that It starts not being an RPG.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

bobobologna on 01 February 2010
rocketpig said:
You haven't played the game, right? I think I remember you saying that earlier... Anyway, the action is actually quite good and is on par with some of the better TPS games around. It's far better than the original game, which lacked a bit in that regard.

But it's not the best, nor could it be, really. Even the battles are above average when compared to a typical action/TPS game, which is amazing considering the other RPG elements the game blends into it.

I hate to bring back this thread, but to answer you, I have not played the game.  The only reason I got into this whole argument was because people seemed to be reacting poorly to disolitude's, IMO, fair criticism of one aspect of the game that could be improved.  People had such kneejerk reactions as if disolitude had just insulted their baby and called it ugly.  I mean, seriously, "Don't Like it? Go Play something else"?  Really?  People can't have constructive criticism for a game they like?  If you don't like every single little aspect of a game, then that automatically means you hate the game and should play something else?



heruamon on 01 February 2010

Sorry, but I'll pass on your suggestions, and hope ME3 is exactly in the mold of ME1 nad ME2.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

yog-sothot on 01 February 2010

ME2 is enought action-ish like that

I'd prefer Bioware to go back to its RPG roots ! But as ME2 will sell a lot, I'm sure they'll just make a shooter with fine dialogues in ME3...



Munkeh111 on 01 February 2010

I just want them to improve the cover further. Things like swat turns, movement between cover and more tweaking of the system really need to be put in place. They have massively improved the shooting in this game, but it could still be so much better....

The main thing that they need to change is the EXP, I need it for killing enemies!!!! But other than that, basically the same game again.

I thought we were meant to hate sequels? Certainly AC II, Uncharted 2 and now this show that sequels are great!