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Forums - General Discussion - Haitian Disaster Shows World Come Together... Late as Always?

I don't usually make too many topics discussing my opinions on a lot of these matters (mostly because a lot of the things that cross into my mind are way to radical for this world and best I keep my mouth shut for most things haha).  But in one of my most reoccurring idealist thoughts, the Haitian earthquck really has me thinking about this again. 

Obivously, we have all heard the news of the 2010 destructive earthquake that has ravaged Haiti.  Over 170,000 estimated casulaties with over a million left homeless.  Immediately after, a numerous relief effort has been structured and ongoing to help the devestated country.  The whole world has put aside their differences to come together as a planet.  I've been admiring how it was no longer country boundaries or certain ethnic gropus, but a planet as a whole helping as if Haiti was another piece of it, like it actually is.  When the Haitians need the rest of the world the most, they came to their aid as people, not nations. 

So what's the problem?  They didn't get their late.  But they did.  Not on the disaster relief, but for humanity in general.  I was thinking about that and started wondering why do we need a natural disaster to start treating people on this planet as people not inferiors, other races, other ethnicities, other countries, etc.  Why is it with these more economically endowed countries, that we let these other areas get on the brink of destruction before we actually think it is time to go help them.  To give a crude analogy, this would be like sending a military squad into a suicide mission, telling them to hold out, and only after 90% of the squad has perished is it time to help them.  Why the need for so much sacrifice when something clearly can be done earlier?

Now obviously, I'm not talking about natural disaster relief.  There's no way to really stop the forces of nature, accept avoiding and taking preventive measures, but nature will always get its strikes on man.  What I'm talking about, is this is a world of people, animals, plants, etc., and yet we don't treat it that way.  We treat it like factions, inferior/superior, and boundaries.  One of the most evocative pictures of the last century was the first picture of the earth taken from space.  The picture showed a few key things: there are no boundaries on this planet, there are no countries, there is only one planet with her children living on it. 

So why treat ourselves like anything less or more.  We are earthians, not Americas or Haitains or British or whatever your nationaliy.  You are from the planet Earth and you are human.  This world shouldn't need a natural disaster to actually treat your fellow man like you fellow man.  To treat the animals and organisms like earthians as yourself.  It just bothers me so much that so few in this world actually view it the way it should be viewed.  That we'd rather fight over non-existent border disputes, opininated religious disputes, or chunks of land.  I remember one thing my mother always used to teach me as a child.  She would tell me this (with some variation due to loss of memory), "There is no such thing as a white man or a black man, no such thing as as Christian man or Muslim man, no such thing as an American man or Chinese man.  There is only man."  I've tried to hold that to heart as much as possible. 

So with my obvious idealists things in there, I'm not questioning why this hasn't happened.  I know why it hasn't happened.  But does this bother anyone else as well.  I mean this gravely bothers me that there are people suffering around this world and yet we nothing about it.  Hell there are people even suffering in my country and we do nothing about it.  Why does no one care when they are no different from you and I.  And maybe I'm a hypocrite for not helping either, but does anyone even consider this an option other than a few.  It shouldn't take the worst to do the most.  Doing the right thing is not timely.

 

So there goes my idealist rant.  Open for discussion as I'm not sure if everyone here agrees with it obviously.  But this has just been something bothering me as of late.  Just been seeing a lot of people lately acting as if they care for these people when, if this had been a minor earthquake that didn't do as much devestation, they could have cared less.  Especiallyl, myself, who surrounded by a bunch of so called Christians, seem to not understand the philosophy of their faith.  Indeed being Christ-like (despite the name) doesn't seem to be a necessity (or attempt haha).  Any thoughts (think I'm crazy? haha) or opinions on the matter would be appreciated.



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Zucas said:

One of the most evocative pictures of the last century was the first picture of the earth taken from space.  The picture showed a few key things: there are no boundaries on this planet, there are no countries, there is only one planet with her children living on it. 

So why treat ourselves like anything less or more.  We are earthians, not Americas or Haitains or British or whatever your nationaliy.

But if someone could take a picture of the entire cosmos, you would see that there are no boundaries there, either. So, really, by talking about the commonality of Earthlings and excluding all others, you are being just as closed-minded as anyone else.

And yes, you are a hypocrite for not helping.

Also, you are a navel-gazing silly billy.



I don't have a problem with helping people, but I would expect them to help themselves.

When you have resource-starved countries where the population multiplies like rabbits and keeps destroying its environment, that makes it harder for me to care about helping. No matter how much I help, certain places are on a path to destruction and "helping" only delays the problem and makes it bigger.

Now there's already talk of taking Haitians off their island into other nations. They will most likely be a burden on society and government finances in the countries they move to (as if gov finances everywhere in the West aren't already strained enough).

BTW this comes from someone who often donates to charity. I just find it hard to justify going the extra mile to help societies destroy themselves and spread their problems to other places. We propagate like yeast and then don't want to suffer the consequences of this uncontrolled and unsustainable expansion.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

NJ5 said:
I don't have a problem with helping people, but I would expect them to help themselves.

When you have resource-starved countries where the population multiplies like rabbits and keeps destroying its environment, that makes it harder for me to care about helping. No matter how much I help, certain places are on a path to destruction and "helping" only delays the problem and makes it bigger.

Now there's already talk of taking Haitians off their island into other nations. They will most likely be a burden on society and government finances in the countries they move to (as if gov finances everywhere in the West aren't already strained enough).

BTW this comes from someone who often donates to charity. I just find it hard to justify going the extra mile to help societies destroy themselves and spread their problems to other places. We propagate like yeast and then don't want to suffer the consequences of this uncontrolled and unsustainable expansion.

Well said.I naturally feel for the people of the Haiti but just giving millions in aid is not going to solve the problem.We need to build up their whole society properly from the ground up so that they can sort themselves out.Unfourtunatly they are not really helping themselves by looting and stealing.



"They will know heghan belongs to the helghast"

"England expects that everyman will do his duty"

"we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

Zucas said:

I don't usually make too many topics discussing my opinions on a lot of these matters (mostly because a lot of the things that cross into my mind are way to radical for this world and best I keep my mouth shut for most things haha).  But in one of my most reoccurring idealist thoughts, the Haitian earthquck really has me thinking about this again. 

Obivously, we have all heard the news of the 2010 destructive earthquake that has ravaged Haiti.  Over 170,000 estimated casulaties with over a million left homeless.  Immediately after, a numerous relief effort has been structured and ongoing to help the devestated country.  The whole world has put aside their differences to come together as a planet.  I've been admiring how it was no longer country boundaries or certain ethnic gropus, but a planet as a whole helping as if Haiti was another piece of it, like it actually is.  When the Haitians need the rest of the world the most, they came to their aid as people, not nations. 

So what's the problem?  They didn't get their late.  But they did.  Not on the disaster relief, but for humanity in general.  I was thinking about that and started wondering why do we need a natural disaster to start treating people on this planet as people not inferiors, other races, other ethnicities, other countries, etc.  Why is it with these more economically endowed countries, that we let these other areas get on the brink of destruction before we actually think it is time to go help them.  To give a crude analogy, this would be like sending a military squad into a suicide mission, telling them to hold out, and only after 90% of the squad has perished is it time to help them.  Why the need for so much sacrifice when something clearly can be done earlier?

Now obviously, I'm not talking about natural disaster relief.  There's no way to really stop the forces of nature, accept avoiding and taking preventive measures, but nature will always get its strikes on man.  What I'm talking about, is this is a world of people, animals, plants, etc., and yet we don't treat it that way.  We treat it like factions, inferior/superior, and boundaries.  One of the most evocative pictures of the last century was the first picture of the earth taken from space.  The picture showed a few key things: there are no boundaries on this planet, there are no countries, there is only one planet with her children living on it. 

So why treat ourselves like anything less or more.  We are earthians, not Americas or Haitains or British or whatever your nationaliy.  You are from the planet Earth and you are human.  This world shouldn't need a natural disaster to actually treat your fellow man like you fellow man.  To treat the animals and organisms like earthians as yourself.  It just bothers me so much that so few in this world actually view it the way it should be viewed.  That we'd rather fight over non-existent border disputes, opininated religious disputes, or chunks of land.  I remember one thing my mother always used to teach me as a child.  She would tell me this (with some variation due to loss of memory), "There is no such thing as a white man or a black man, no such thing as as Christian man or Muslim man, no such thing as an American man or Chinese man.  There is only man."  I've tried to hold that to heart as much as possible. 

So with my obvious idealists things in there, I'm not questioning why this hasn't happened.  I know why it hasn't happened.  But does this bother anyone else as well.  I mean this gravely bothers me that there are people suffering around this world and yet we nothing about it.  Hell there are people even suffering in my country and we do nothing about it.  Why does no one care when they are no different from you and I.  And maybe I'm a hypocrite for not helping either, but does anyone even consider this an option other than a few.  It shouldn't take the worst to do the most.  Doing the right thing is not timely.

 

So there goes my idealist rant.  Open for discussion as I'm not sure if everyone here agrees with it obviously.  But this has just been something bothering me as of late.  Just been seeing a lot of people lately acting as if they care for these people when, if this had been a minor earthquake that didn't do as much devestation, they could have cared less.  Especiallyl, myself, who surrounded by a bunch of so called Christians, seem to not understand the philosophy of their faith.  Indeed being Christ-like (despite the name) doesn't seem to be a necessity (or attempt haha).  Any thoughts (think I'm crazy? haha) or opinions on the matter would be appreciated.

yeah break America even more,buy helping everyone in the world that's poor. It's good to help people,but why should America help every country that's worse off. America is already broke enough. These countries ultimatly need to help themselves.

 



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oldschoolfool, you speak as though there is no country but America on this planet.

Zucas, I salute you. I have thought this myself many times, not just in the wake of the Haitian earthquake.
its a sad, sorry state of affairs but people in general are too selfish to see beyond themselves, their own nation or even landmass.

the whole world is bloody crazy right now. i wish i could just float about in space for a while.



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.
trashleg said:
oldschoolfool, you speak as though there is no country but America on this planet.

Zucas, I salute you. I have thought this myself many times, not just in the wake of the Haitian earthquake.
its a sad, sorry state of affairs but people in general are too selfish to see beyond themselves, their own nation or even landmass.

the whole world is bloody crazy right now. i wish i could just float about in space for a while.


I live in America. I can't speak for Europe are any other country. I'm just saying because America is one of the richest countries in the world,why should America help every country that's poor and barely staying afloat. Don't get me wrong it's good to help people,but you can't save are help everybody that's out there. that would bankrupt America into the ground. That goes for trying to help people in general. It's good to give to charity,but why should I give all my money to help people out. you can't save the world. Most people aren't selfish,there just cynical. With all the corruption and crime in the world,It hard to know who are what to trust. It's also hard to know what's a scam and what's legitimate. That's why I never buy anything over the internet. So I respectfuly disagree with you assertion that people are selfish.



oldschoolfool said:
trashleg said:
oldschoolfool, you speak as though there is no country but America on this planet.

Zucas, I salute you. I have thought this myself many times, not just in the wake of the Haitian earthquake.
its a sad, sorry state of affairs but people in general are too selfish to see beyond themselves, their own nation or even landmass.

the whole world is bloody crazy right now. i wish i could just float about in space for a while.


I live in America. I can't speak for Europe are any other country. I'm just saying because America is one of the richest countries in the world,why should America help every country that's poor and barely staying afloat. Don't get me wrong it's good to help people,but you can't save are help everybody that's out there. that would bankrupt America into the ground. That goes for trying to help people in general. It's good to give to charity,but why should I give all my money to help people out. you can't save the world. Most people aren't selfish,there just cynical. With all the corruption and crime in the world,It hard to know who are what to trust. It's also hard to know what's a scam and what's legitimate. That's why I never buy anything over the internet. So I respectfuly disagree with you assertion that people are selfish.

i apprecaite all of your comments, and agree with you on a lot of them. my whole post wasn't aimed at you, just that one wee comment, that's why i didn't quote you

i wasn't saying individuals are selfish, i was talking about countries etc. There are statistically too many people on this planet, and a hell of a lot of them are dying off because of several inequalities.

Money doesn't save people, resources save people. There's this massive fake economy world-wide with people throwing money about as though its the be-all and end-all. Your $20 is gonna mean jack-shit to the African family who have infertile land and no crops, and I understand that yes, but that $20 will enable the family to buy seeds and tools and fertiliser but on a larger, like, planetary scale, if lack of money is the root of all these problems then why can't we just do away with money altogether? Civilisation survived well enough without it until about 2600 years ago.

(this isn't a rant at you, oldschoolfool, just a rant in general about the evils of money).



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.

That's human nature I guess.



"Life is but a gentle death. Fate is but a sickness that results in extinction and in the midst of all the uncertainty, lies resolve."

I personally just try to treat people like I hope they would treat me. It is simple in theory but very hard sometimes. Kindness can hurt you, many times, but life always rebounds.

In Haiti's case, the whole place must be rebuilt, or at least paved. Haiti is not a land of savages or genocide. They are people like you and me, but just poor. I hope people don't think they want to be poor. The government is truly corrupt, and gives the people very little. Hopefully with the capital crushed and all this attention placed on the country, it's governmental structure can be fixed indefinitely. Some Marines that are supposed to be sent to Iraq are being sent there to police instead, thank God.

I hope it recovers. Beyond the poverty and dust, there are beautiful beaches and lush green mountainsides.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."