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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Just finished Dragon Age:Origins, incredible game, the best RPG this Gen !?

Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:
Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:

But isn't consensus that KOTOR 2 was much worse than KOTOR 1, and Neverwinter nights 2 much worse than NWN1?

Not... really. Some hold that KotoR2 was worse, yes, but almost nobody claims it was worse based on its writing or its worldbuilding or how it bildso n the Star Wars mythos, which is primarily what I caed about.

I had been under the impression that the NWN2 expansions elevated it high above the original, but I have not played those.

I see. I havent played any of those very much so I have no idea, thats just what I've heard through the years.

So you came in here calling my opinion into question without playing any of the relevant games?

well, I have played those games and I have a different opinion then you.  For one, I would say the writing of KotoR 2 is the weakest part of the game.  The different story elements seemed to fall apart in the end and left you with a feeling of "is that it?" in the end.  I think the gameplay in KotoR 2 is improved from the first, but that is to be expected in a sequel.  

IMO, Bioware is still the best WRPG developer out there followed very closely by Bethesda with Obsidian taking 3rd place.  I still really like their games, but they haven't quite risen to Bioware or Bethesda standards.

I'm curious about what you think about their new game coming out Alpha Protocol.  I have tried to get myself interested in it because I really like Obsidian, but I just can't get excited about it.  How about you?



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Obsidian didn't have enough time with KOTOR2 that's why when you play it there are moments where you feel some things are missing. The thing I love the most about Bioware is they keep making new IP's and they are all of high quality. They could just made KOTOR XIII etc!



Tyrannical said:
Excellent voice acting and party chatter. Probably their best game since KOTOR.

Dragon Age is far better than Kotor. Kotor was a decent RPG, but nothing else.



Munkeh111 said:
Lurker said:
Munkeh111 said:
radiantshadow92 said:
i really didnt like dragon age but that it just me...the battle system was boring to me but i loved the everything else, it seems good, ill give it a better shot next time i play it

but still Demon's souls>dragon age origins imo =p

Just turn the difficulty down to casual, whilst shameful, it does make it a lot more fun, as you can just concentrate on the story

It's not very hard on normal if you don't go to late game areas like Orzammar early. They put high level bandits there on purpose to scare people off.

It isn't impossible, but I was in the fade, and kept being killed as soon as I entered a room, and I am enjoying the storyline now I don't have to worry about dying

@ nazna, the problem for me is that I think the storytelling is a step back from Mass Effect, and graphically, I think it is far inferior. The fact that the main character does not speak does bother me {my elf also looks a little pathetic)

I am planning on getting a much more powerful PC in the summer, and I think I will get Dragon Age again for the PC to see the proper version and try again with a different class

If your meassure of storytelling is extremely shallow, i.e. whether the main character is voice acted or not, I agree... otherwise the dialog options are far more nuanced, and the character development leagues ahead in Dragon Age. The storytelling shames Mass Effect, aside from a main character who doesn't talk....

Graphically it's about equal to ME on PC, but maybe a little worse. Regardless with the larger scale of battles (more enemies on screen, larger open environments for combat), it's easily on par if not better. It's a big downgrade on consoles, but you shouldn't judge a rushed port as the main version of a game.

As far as you dying a lot, I'm assuming strategy is not your forte in video games, but if it's the console controls that are hurting you you'll find your gameplay and strategy options much more varried on PC.



naznatips said:
Munkeh111 said:

It isn't impossible, but I was in the fade, and kept being killed as soon as I entered a room, and I am enjoying the storyline now I don't have to worry about dying

@ nazna, the problem for me is that I think the storytelling is a step back from Mass Effect, and graphically, I think it is far inferior. The fact that the main character does not speak does bother me {my elf also looks a little pathetic)

I am planning on getting a much more powerful PC in the summer, and I think I will get Dragon Age again for the PC to see the proper version and try again with a different class

If your meassure of storytelling is extremely shallow, i.e. whether the main character is voice acted or not, I agree... otherwise the dialog options are far more nuanced, and the character development leagues ahead in Dragon Age. The storytelling shames Mass Effect, aside from a main character who doesn't talk....

Graphically it's about equal to ME on PC, but maybe a little worse. Regardless with the larger scale of battles (more enemies on screen, larger open environments for combat), it's easily on par if not better. It's a big downgrade on consoles, but you shouldn't judge a rushed port as the main version of a game.

Well, it ruins the immersion when you have a mute main character, and everyone else speaking. And ME 2's conversation system seems far more advanced. The character development is good, though sometimes I do feel there are too many main characters, Sten has done nothing but sit around really

I can only judge what is put in front of me and Dragon Age PS3 looks far worse that ME on 360, but as I say, I will get it on PC this summer probably



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gergroy said:
Khuutra said:

So you came in here calling my opinion into question without playing any of the relevant games?

well, I have played those games and I have a different opinion then you.  For one, I would say the writing of KotoR 2 is the weakest part of the game.  The different story elements seemed to fall apart in the end and left you with a feeling of "is that it?" in the end.  I think the gameplay in KotoR 2 is improved from the first, but that is to be expected in a sequel.  

IMO, Bioware is still the best WRPG developer out there followed very closely by Bethesda with Obsidian taking 3rd place.  I still really like their games, but they haven't quite risen to Bioware or Bethesda standards.

I'm curious about what you think about their new game coming out Alpha Protocol.  I have tried to get myself interested in it because I really like Obsidian, but I just can't get excited about it.  How about you?

Well, first I need to clarify that, though the ending is broken, a half-finished thing..... the actual, finished ending, is rather sublimee. Wonderful, even. That's something you'd need the PC version to see, though. And the characters and world-building are light-years ahead of the first KotOR.

As to Alpha Protocol? Oh yes, very excited. I'm trying to stay away from details as much as possible, but I've seen enough to whet my appetite.



Munkeh111 said:
naznatips said:
Munkeh111 said:

It isn't impossible, but I was in the fade, and kept being killed as soon as I entered a room, and I am enjoying the storyline now I don't have to worry about dying

@ nazna, the problem for me is that I think the storytelling is a step back from Mass Effect, and graphically, I think it is far inferior. The fact that the main character does not speak does bother me {my elf also looks a little pathetic)

I am planning on getting a much more powerful PC in the summer, and I think I will get Dragon Age again for the PC to see the proper version and try again with a different class

If your meassure of storytelling is extremely shallow, i.e. whether the main character is voice acted or not, I agree... otherwise the dialog options are far more nuanced, and the character development leagues ahead in Dragon Age. The storytelling shames Mass Effect, aside from a main character who doesn't talk....

Graphically it's about equal to ME on PC, but maybe a little worse. Regardless with the larger scale of battles (more enemies on screen, larger open environments for combat), it's easily on par if not better. It's a big downgrade on consoles, but you shouldn't judge a rushed port as the main version of a game.

Well, it ruins the immersion when you have a mute main character, and everyone else speaking. And ME 2's conversation system seems far more advanced. The character development is good, though sometimes I do feel there are too many main characters, Sten has done nothing but sit around really

I can only judge what is put in front of me and Dragon Age PS3 looks far worse that ME on 360, but as I say, I will get it on PC this summer probably

ME2's conversation system is infantile in comparison. There are three options for everything, and they are always black, nuetral, and white decisions. No gray; no difficulty in deciding between right and wrong. If there's a 4th option it's nothing but gathering more information. The lore that they added to create the world of Mass Effect is expansive; until you realize it's again a small fraction of the vast universe they have created for Dragon Age.

And you want to talk about breaking immersion, how about the fact that anytime you make a single "evil" decision, even if your characters has been fucking angelic for the rest of the game, Shepard will become the evilest bastard in the universe for the remainder of the scene. This is especially hilarious if you played through the entire game Paragon then make the Renegade decision at the end and suddenly you're the fucking anti-christ.

At least with Dragon Age your character is a constantly evolving being, and there are decisions that are neither good nor evil. At least the sacrifices you're forced to make sometimes feel genuine, rather than just "which extremely annoying party member do you wish to kill?"



naznatips said:
Munkeh111 said:
naznatips said:
Munkeh111 said:

It isn't impossible, but I was in the fade, and kept being killed as soon as I entered a room, and I am enjoying the storyline now I don't have to worry about dying

@ nazna, the problem for me is that I think the storytelling is a step back from Mass Effect, and graphically, I think it is far inferior. The fact that the main character does not speak does bother me {my elf also looks a little pathetic)

I am planning on getting a much more powerful PC in the summer, and I think I will get Dragon Age again for the PC to see the proper version and try again with a different class

If your meassure of storytelling is extremely shallow, i.e. whether the main character is voice acted or not, I agree... otherwise the dialog options are far more nuanced, and the character development leagues ahead in Dragon Age. The storytelling shames Mass Effect, aside from a main character who doesn't talk....

Graphically it's about equal to ME on PC, but maybe a little worse. Regardless with the larger scale of battles (more enemies on screen, larger open environments for combat), it's easily on par if not better. It's a big downgrade on consoles, but you shouldn't judge a rushed port as the main version of a game.

Well, it ruins the immersion when you have a mute main character, and everyone else speaking. And ME 2's conversation system seems far more advanced. The character development is good, though sometimes I do feel there are too many main characters, Sten has done nothing but sit around really

I can only judge what is put in front of me and Dragon Age PS3 looks far worse that ME on 360, but as I say, I will get it on PC this summer probably

ME2's conversation system is infantile in comparison. There are three options for everything, and they are always black, nuetral, and white decisions. No gray; no difficulty in deciding between right and wrong. If there's a 4th option it's nothing but gathering more information. The lore that they added to create the world of Mass Effect is expansive; until you realize it's again a small fraction of the vast universe they have created for Dragon Age.

And you want to talk about breaking immersion, how about the fact that anytime you make a single "evil" decision, even if your characters has been fucking angelic for the rest of the game, Shepard will become the evilest bastard in the universe for the remainder of the scene. This is especially hilarious if you played through the entire game Paragon then make the Renegade decision at the end and suddenly you're the fucking anti-christ.

At least with Dragon Age your character is a constantly evolving being, and there are decisions that are neither good nor evil. At least the sacrifices you're forced to make sometimes feel genuine, rather than just "which extremely annoying party member do you wish to kill?"

Yeah, Mass Effect is simpler, but I often find the DAO system overly compliacted, though much of the time the greyness of it is good until I make a mistake....

There is no progression of evil/good in DAO, you can change your mind massively from each sentence. You should still have free will to do what you want. There are certainly bigger choices in Dragon Age, and more meaningful, and hopefully that is something that will be addressed in Mass Effect 2



Munkeh111 said:
naznatips said:
Munkeh111 said:
naznatips said:
Munkeh111 said:

It isn't impossible, but I was in the fade, and kept being killed as soon as I entered a room, and I am enjoying the storyline now I don't have to worry about dying

@ nazna, the problem for me is that I think the storytelling is a step back from Mass Effect, and graphically, I think it is far inferior. The fact that the main character does not speak does bother me {my elf also looks a little pathetic)

I am planning on getting a much more powerful PC in the summer, and I think I will get Dragon Age again for the PC to see the proper version and try again with a different class

If your meassure of storytelling is extremely shallow, i.e. whether the main character is voice acted or not, I agree... otherwise the dialog options are far more nuanced, and the character development leagues ahead in Dragon Age. The storytelling shames Mass Effect, aside from a main character who doesn't talk....

Graphically it's about equal to ME on PC, but maybe a little worse. Regardless with the larger scale of battles (more enemies on screen, larger open environments for combat), it's easily on par if not better. It's a big downgrade on consoles, but you shouldn't judge a rushed port as the main version of a game.

Well, it ruins the immersion when you have a mute main character, and everyone else speaking. And ME 2's conversation system seems far more advanced. The character development is good, though sometimes I do feel there are too many main characters, Sten has done nothing but sit around really

I can only judge what is put in front of me and Dragon Age PS3 looks far worse that ME on 360, but as I say, I will get it on PC this summer probably

ME2's conversation system is infantile in comparison. There are three options for everything, and they are always black, nuetral, and white decisions. No gray; no difficulty in deciding between right and wrong. If there's a 4th option it's nothing but gathering more information. The lore that they added to create the world of Mass Effect is expansive; until you realize it's again a small fraction of the vast universe they have created for Dragon Age.

And you want to talk about breaking immersion, how about the fact that anytime you make a single "evil" decision, even if your characters has been fucking angelic for the rest of the game, Shepard will become the evilest bastard in the universe for the remainder of the scene. This is especially hilarious if you played through the entire game Paragon then make the Renegade decision at the end and suddenly you're the fucking anti-christ.

At least with Dragon Age your character is a constantly evolving being, and there are decisions that are neither good nor evil. At least the sacrifices you're forced to make sometimes feel genuine, rather than just "which extremely annoying party member do you wish to kill?"

Yeah, Mass Effect is simpler, but I often find the DAO system overly compliacted, though much of the time the greyness of it is good until I make a mistake....

There is no progression of evil/good in DAO, you can change your mind massively from each sentence. You should still have free will to do what you want. There are certainly bigger choices in Dragon Age, and more meaningful, and hopefully that is something that will be addressed in Mass Effect 2

That's what makes it so good. There's no morality meter to get in the way. Makes you think more about the choices themselves rather than just picking the obvious Good or Evil choice.



Munkeh111 said:
naznatips said:
Munkeh111 said:
naznatips said:
Munkeh111 said:

It isn't impossible, but I was in the fade, and kept being killed as soon as I entered a room, and I am enjoying the storyline now I don't have to worry about dying

@ nazna, the problem for me is that I think the storytelling is a step back from Mass Effect, and graphically, I think it is far inferior. The fact that the main character does not speak does bother me {my elf also looks a little pathetic)

I am planning on getting a much more powerful PC in the summer, and I think I will get Dragon Age again for the PC to see the proper version and try again with a different class

If your meassure of storytelling is extremely shallow, i.e. whether the main character is voice acted or not, I agree... otherwise the dialog options are far more nuanced, and the character development leagues ahead in Dragon Age. The storytelling shames Mass Effect, aside from a main character who doesn't talk....

Graphically it's about equal to ME on PC, but maybe a little worse. Regardless with the larger scale of battles (more enemies on screen, larger open environments for combat), it's easily on par if not better. It's a big downgrade on consoles, but you shouldn't judge a rushed port as the main version of a game.

Well, it ruins the immersion when you have a mute main character, and everyone else speaking. And ME 2's conversation system seems far more advanced. The character development is good, though sometimes I do feel there are too many main characters, Sten has done nothing but sit around really

I can only judge what is put in front of me and Dragon Age PS3 looks far worse that ME on 360, but as I say, I will get it on PC this summer probably

ME2's conversation system is infantile in comparison. There are three options for everything, and they are always black, nuetral, and white decisions. No gray; no difficulty in deciding between right and wrong. If there's a 4th option it's nothing but gathering more information. The lore that they added to create the world of Mass Effect is expansive; until you realize it's again a small fraction of the vast universe they have created for Dragon Age.

And you want to talk about breaking immersion, how about the fact that anytime you make a single "evil" decision, even if your characters has been fucking angelic for the rest of the game, Shepard will become the evilest bastard in the universe for the remainder of the scene. This is especially hilarious if you played through the entire game Paragon then make the Renegade decision at the end and suddenly you're the fucking anti-christ.

At least with Dragon Age your character is a constantly evolving being, and there are decisions that are neither good nor evil. At least the sacrifices you're forced to make sometimes feel genuine, rather than just "which extremely annoying party member do you wish to kill?"

Yeah, Mass Effect is simpler, but I often find the DAO system overly compliacted, though much of the time the greyness of it is good until I make a mistake....

There is no progression of evil/good in DAO, you can change your mind massively from each sentence. You should still have free will to do what you want. There are certainly bigger choices in Dragon Age, and more meaningful, and hopefully that is something that will be addressed in Mass Effect 2

There is no such thing as "mistake" in your decisions. You make a choice, and you stick to it, which is how you play RPGs.

The evil/good meter is one of the biggest crappy systems I've ever seen on RPGs. Thank god only a few RPGs use it.