Chairman-Mao said: KylieDog said: I get tired with the "but gameplay > other things" defences. Is no reason why a game cannot have good gameplay as well as great other things. This. Yeah people are right gameplay > graphics; but nothing has stopped games like Gears of War, Uncharted or Killzone 2 from having BOTH great gameplay and awesome graphics. And I agree with the majority of things said in the OP. Wii owners should take a stand and demand more great games and improvements to their console instead of sitting back and defending Nintendo. Nintendo is quite content sitting back and counting their money. Its good to see the Wii getting good games like SMG2 and a new Zelda though.

But Nintendo have made great games throughout this generation...

on the op...its not nintendo who have done anything like this at all - people need to differentiate nintendo from other parties.

nintendo created the system. the system has done very well.

nintendo's games are quality, well polished and full, and all use the system to its fullest with great results.
this gen's nintendo highlights:

twilight proncess
prime 3/trilogy
mario kart
smash brothers
mario bros wii
mario galaxy

and sports resort even 

these are all well made, quality titles, the best graphics possible for the wii, great length, replay value etc with solid online support where applicable.

and more importantly thers more to come just this year, with at least 2-3 AAA titles due out this year in zelda, galaxy 2 and metroid, and other great titles in their respective genres in endless ocean 2 and sin and punishment 2. i reckon E3 will bring another big title in too, as they always like to suprise (maybe pikmin, starfox or f-zero).
each may not appeal to everyone, but for their rspective genres they will be of the best possible quality.

if third parties do not use the system to its fullest, and do not maximise the quality of the games whatever the genre, then thats up to them.

its not nintendo, its all the other companies.

more like COD MWR, dead space extraction, resi 4, red steel 2 (hopefully) and monster hunter tri, mixed in with the nintendo products, and a few more fps's, on a regular, consistant basis, like one a month, and to be frank, you have a winning system with all that the ps360 crowd crave, only with worse graphics and motion control.

blame third parties not nintendo!

 

edit:

and also the metroid prime trilogy, especially for the states in that tin...that was a helluva lotta love to give metroid fans

nintendo is great. the wii's overall portfolio of third party titles isnt

ZenfoldorVGI said:   The Wii doesn't have HD graphics because Nintendo wanted to keep the entry price to owning their new console low, from launch.

Yes, they wanted to keep the price down but they also wanted to make a very small console that uses very little power. Regardless of price you couldn't make an HD console with the footprint and power consumption of the Wii even today.

griffinA said: No matter what you think, 10 million customers can't be wrong.

But over 100 million thought the world was flat:/

This thread calls for an Einstein quote, albeit a bit modified,

Any fool can make something bigger, more elaborate and expensive in the gaming market.

It takes a touch of genius to make it more simple, addictive and fun.

Current hd owners have become incredible whining babies from the looks of it, every console should offer the same thing it seems. Yet consoles from the NES days have always been about being different from each other, not just by games, but by features that can be implemented into them. The difference right now is that elitist gamers have become quite greedy for any feature that would mean they could further make their life more lazy.

Online play and DLC are so insignificant on the market that it actually must be too painful for most to realize it, especially DLC. Multiplayer is great, no doubt, but it is just incredibly stupid for people to say that they won't buy a game if it lacks mp. Games have also been always about single player modes, unless the games were specifically made to be about playing together.

the way i see it, if someone values co-op online over single player modes would probably mean that the gamer is desperate for friends, even if only online. The best way to help would kick his ass, destroy his consoles and make him go out and find friends in the real world.... Okay maybe too radical but i really don't understand why anyone would value on-line mp over single player modes in games.

Rol? I thought you were banned

ZenfoldorVGI said: YEKylieDog said: I get tired with the "but gameplay > other things" defences. Is no reason why a game cannot have good gameplay as well as great other things. Yes there is, you just don't CARE about the reason, so you choose to ignore it. The Wii doesn't have HD graphics because Nintendo wanted to keep the entry price to owning their new console low, from launch. The games don't havve amazing visuals because the console doesn't support them. The Wii has shitty voice chat because it has to be safe for children, with some available opinion for inattentive parents to listen in. The Wii has friend codes to prevent children from interacting with strangers against their parents permission. The Wii has casual games because it is owned by a ton of casual gamers who like them, and children who would rather play a Spongebob game than Final Fantasy XIII. The core gamers and Nintendo faithful are in the minority.   That said, it is a completely ignorant myth that "the Wii has no good games." Zack and Wiki Dead Space Extraction HotD:Overkill Muramasa: TDB Madworld Twilight Princess Metroid Prime Trilogy DeBlob Mario Galaxy Mario Kart Little King's Story Punch Out Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn Super Paper Mario 3 Brawl New Super Mario Brothers Wii Wii Sports Wii Sports Resort Shattered Memories Rock Band series Guitar Hero series Okami Animal Crossing World of Goo Virtual Console Backwards Compatibility with Gamecube   A lot of those games are exclusive. The Wii is a damn fine next generation console, and it has a shitload of great games.. The thing is, we're internet fanboys. We discuss a plethora of games that we will never, nor ever have played, all day, and attempt to compare libraries of consoles to each other in an attempt to ascertain superiority. The Wii is an easier target, because the nerd elite(entheusiast press, aka entheuastic fans who posted enough on the message forum to learn how to write a decent paper) tend to side with the consoles they play all the time, which are the consoles that let them take advantage of their expensive HDTVs and modern technology. Truth is, neither HD console is very original, and the only reason they have anything on the Wii, is their graphics, and 3rd party support, which in reality, Nintendo couldn't do anything about to begin with. The HD twins are copies. They are very close too identical graphically, and thus,, ,can be ported to and fro easily. The Wii isn't. It's different, and thus, can't be ported to easily, and it often left out of the loop. That's the price you pay for being different, but not having as good of a library as the Xbox 360 dooesn't mean there are no good games. That's bull. Not that you implied that Kyliedog, but just in case you were thinking it.

You are my hero. Could not have said it better myself. The people who visit and chat on these forums are the MINORITY! Some think that NSMBWii dosent deserve the sales. Well it does because the majority has spoken, to the tune of 10M and counting. TEN MILLION! Anyones opinion on this site, or IGN, is just that, opinion. The sales are facts. Furthermore i take great offence to anyone, ie IGN, that trys to tell me i only like NSMBWii because of the Mario name. Thats very insulting. So to all thoes people i say F*** off. I been gaming for a long time and i know what a good game is. And when im having fun with a game i dont need some nerd on the interwebz telling me i should be playing explosionman or what the f*** ever else. PS: If the 360 didnt have so many damn hardware failing problems i would have owned one by now and maby id buy explsion man, what ever its called, and loved it...As the way things went i had to turn to a PS3 for my HD gaming. Maby next gen MS will make a more relaible machine.

Chairman-Mao said: KylieDog said: I get tired with the "but gameplay > other things" defences. Is no reason why a game cannot have good gameplay as well as great other things. This. Yeah people are right gameplay > graphics; but nothing has stopped games like Gears of War, Uncharted or Killzone 2 from having BOTH great gameplay and awesome graphics. And I agree with the majority of things said in the OP. Wii owners should take a stand and demand more great games and improvements to their console instead of sitting back and defending Nintendo. Nintendo is quite content sitting back and counting their money. Its good to see the Wii getting good games like SMG2 and a new Zelda though.

Just because a handful of well known experienced and highly talented developers are able to manage the scope and budget of a HD console game, make a great game and sell it at a level where it is remarkably profitable doesn’t mean that the majority of developers can do this. The bulk of games should have their visual quality determined based on the capability of the developer and the realistic expectations for sales of the game.

Of the thousands of games released across all platforms in a year (portable, console and PC) at this point in time about 50 to 100 of them have sales at a level which would justify the cost of developing them with HD visuals. Realistically, even if producing the games for the HD consoles meant doubling sales, games like Mad World and No More Heroes would be financial failures on a level which would probably close these studios; or at least put the developers on such a tight leash from the publisher that all originality would be removed from the game.

It wasn’t that long ago where you would see multiple studios have break-out successes on every console in a year because development costs were low enough that new or unknown studios could bankroll their own project. This unexpected success has disappeared today and been replaced with a string of well known studios that have produced several good/great games fighting off bankruptcy because they produced 1 mediocre game that only sold about 1 million copies.

 

There is a lot that stands in the way of most studios making good games with the visuals you want

Dear there are a lot of joke thread these days.

--OkeyDokey-- said: Gnizmo said: I wanted to type up a long rebuttal, but I just don't have the heart. Not worth it really. The short version is what you value is not universally valued. Online is a waste of programming time as it pertains to my personal enjoyment of a game. Same is true of DLC, and many other things. I don't are what you think should be standard for some arbitrary reason. I care about what actually adds to my game experience, and makes it more enjoyable. Nintendo continues to do extremely well in that regard. So you're saying that Nintendo should just do the bare minimum and we should all be fine with that? You probably wouldn't complain if NSMB Wii had no form of multiplayer local or otherwise. Neither would I. But I appreciate when developers put in the extra effort to make a better product. In fact, I expect that from Nintendo as well as Sony and Microsoft, as first party publishers. And Im sure you do too.

Since when does Nintendo do the bare minimum?

I don't think a company has to go all out and implement every thinkable feature. I don't even they they SHOULD do it. Feature creep results in bloated budgets and can make games more buggy, and taking longer to come out. Nintendo usually sets a realistic goal and accomplishes it within a reasonable timeframe, then moves on to the next game.