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Forums - Sales Discussion - COMG! Japan PRE-ORDER Chartz Thread - Will Be Updated Daily!

KillerMan on 09 October 2010
darthdevidem01 said:
KillerMan said:
darthdevidem01 said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said


Again, I disagree. DQ is everyone but not in the sense of a Karaoke Joysound or DecaSport, same with NiNoKuni, I think anything that has some kind of core appeal will sell more on PS3 even if they are mainstream (DQ, NiNoKuni, FF,MH). We're gonna have to stop here because we're not gonna agree on this and we'll most likely never find out :P

Again, DQ is "everyone"  in the same exact way Mario is "everyone".  And that's why it'd better on Wii versus PS3, just as Mario would.  Ditto for Ninokuni, and I'd even say something like FF might've done better on Wii.  They're all games that attract both casual and core audiences, they're fundamentally crossover games, and crossover games sell best on Wii.

I'd also say Karaoke Joysound or Deca Sports isn't at all "everyone".

No it's not.

Yes, it really is.  In terms of brand stength, historical significance and public perception, DQ is about as close to Mario as any 3rd party game gets.  Pokemon's somewhat in the same camp, they're games that literally appeal to "everyone" on some level.  And by large, these sorts of games tend to do better on DS/Wii than PSP/PS3.  More niche, more targeted, less mainstream, core games tend to better on PSP/PS3 than DS/Wii though, games like Winning Eleven, Musou, Megaten or Tales.  These games have a more focused fanbase makeup though, with fewer casual fans making up their overall base comparably... this is the reason FFXIII undershot what the series managed last gen, because the more casual auidence wasn't there on PS3 to push numbers like they were on PS2.  Basically, the bigger the brand, the more important that huge mainstream userbsae becomes.

I'd say the same of Ninokuni chiefly due to the Ghibli connection... Ghibli's also very much an "everyone" brand at this point in Japan, and if L5 handles it right, the game could be absolutely huge.  The upper threshold for "huge" is more relaible on Wii than PS3 though, there a reason games on Wii in Japan can actually cross 2 million sold.

Jarrod is right in the case of Japan

a lack of casual audience on PS3 in Japan led to FFXIII, Hot Shots Golf and even MGS4 not doing the best their series has done before in that region, And the same will happen to GT5

The west is a completely different story.

Actually MGS4 sold about the same amount as previous MGS games

MGS1: 781k

MGS2: 869k

MGS3: 831k

MGS4: 818k (still selling)

Thats excellent!

But I swear Is saw MGS3 around 950K there on some Famitsu sales sheet.....hmm dunno

That probably includes Subsistence. I didn't include it as MGS4 never got one.



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darthdevidem01 on 09 October 2010
KillerMan said:
darthdevidem01 said:
KillerMan said:
darthdevidem01 said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said


Again, I disagree. DQ is everyone but not in the sense of a Karaoke Joysound or DecaSport, same with NiNoKuni, I think anything that has some kind of core appeal will sell more on PS3 even if they are mainstream (DQ, NiNoKuni, FF,MH). We're gonna have to stop here because we're not gonna agree on this and we'll most likely never find out :P

Again, DQ is "everyone"  in the same exact way Mario is "everyone".  And that's why it'd better on Wii versus PS3, just as Mario would.  Ditto for Ninokuni, and I'd even say something like FF might've done better on Wii.  They're all games that attract both casual and core audiences, they're fundamentally crossover games, and crossover games sell best on Wii.

I'd also say Karaoke Joysound or Deca Sports isn't at all "everyone".

No it's not.

Yes, it really is.  In terms of brand stength, historical significance and public perception, DQ is about as close to Mario as any 3rd party game gets.  Pokemon's somewhat in the same camp, they're games that literally appeal to "everyone" on some level.  And by large, these sorts of games tend to do better on DS/Wii than PSP/PS3.  More niche, more targeted, less mainstream, core games tend to better on PSP/PS3 than DS/Wii though, games like Winning Eleven, Musou, Megaten or Tales.  These games have a more focused fanbase makeup though, with fewer casual fans making up their overall base comparably... this is the reason FFXIII undershot what the series managed last gen, because the more casual auidence wasn't there on PS3 to push numbers like they were on PS2.  Basically, the bigger the brand, the more important that huge mainstream userbsae becomes.

I'd say the same of Ninokuni chiefly due to the Ghibli connection... Ghibli's also very much an "everyone" brand at this point in Japan, and if L5 handles it right, the game could be absolutely huge.  The upper threshold for "huge" is more relaible on Wii than PS3 though, there a reason games on Wii in Japan can actually cross 2 million sold.

Jarrod is right in the case of Japan

a lack of casual audience on PS3 in Japan led to FFXIII, Hot Shots Golf and even MGS4 not doing the best their series has done before in that region, And the same will happen to GT5

The west is a completely different story.

Actually MGS4 sold about the same amount as previous MGS games

MGS1: 781k

MGS2: 869k

MGS3: 831k

MGS4: 818k (still selling)

Thats excellent!

But I swear Is saw MGS3 around 950K there on some Famitsu sales sheet.....hmm dunno

That probably includes Subsistence. I didn't include it as MGS4 never got one.

Yeah thats fair thats fair!

Take that JArrod!!!!!!!!!



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

ElGranCabeza on 09 October 2010
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said


Again, I disagree. DQ is everyone but not in the sense of a Karaoke Joysound or DecaSport, same with NiNoKuni, I think anything that has some kind of core appeal will sell more on PS3 even if they are mainstream (DQ, NiNoKuni, FF,MH). We're gonna have to stop here because we're not gonna agree on this and we'll most likely never find out :P

Again, DQ is "everyone"  in the same exact way Mario is "everyone".  And that's why it'd better on Wii versus PS3, just as Mario would.  Ditto for Ninokuni, and I'd even say something like FF might've done better on Wii.  They're all games that attract both casual and core audiences, they're fundamentally crossover games, and crossover games sell best on Wii.

I'd also say Karaoke Joysound or Deca Sports isn't at all "everyone".

No it's not.

Yes, it really is.  In terms of brand stength, historical significance and public perception, DQ is about as close to Mario as any 3rd party game gets.  Pokemon's somewhat in the same camp, they're games that literally appeal to "everyone" on some level.  And by large, these sorts of games tend to do better on DS/Wii than PSP/PS3.  More niche, more targeted, less mainstream, core games tend to better on PSP/PS3 than DS/Wii though, games like Winning Eleven, Musou, Megaten or Tales.  These games have a more focused fanbase makeup though, with fewer casual fans making up their overall base comparably... this is the reason FFXIII undershot what the series managed last gen, because the more casual auidence wasn't there on PS3 to push numbers like they were on PS2.  Basically, the bigger the brand, the more important that huge mainstream userbsae becomes.

I'd say the same of Ninokuni chiefly due to the Ghibli connection... Ghibli's also very much an "everyone" brand at this point in Japan, and if L5 handles it right, the game could be absolutely huge.  The upper threshold for "huge" is more relaible on Wii than PS3 though, there a reason games on Wii in Japan can actually cross 2 million sold.


No it really isn't. And, dude, there's really no point to continue discussing this hypothetical situation as I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.



ElGranCabeza on 09 October 2010
darthdevidem01 said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said


Again, I disagree. DQ is everyone but not in the sense of a Karaoke Joysound or DecaSport, same with NiNoKuni, I think anything that has some kind of core appeal will sell more on PS3 even if they are mainstream (DQ, NiNoKuni, FF,MH). We're gonna have to stop here because we're not gonna agree on this and we'll most likely never find out :P

Again, DQ is "everyone"  in the same exact way Mario is "everyone".  And that's why it'd better on Wii versus PS3, just as Mario would.  Ditto for Ninokuni, and I'd even say something like FF might've done better on Wii.  They're all games that attract both casual and core audiences, they're fundamentally crossover games, and crossover games sell best on Wii.

I'd also say Karaoke Joysound or Deca Sports isn't at all "everyone".

No it's not.

Yes, it really is.  In terms of brand stength, historical significance and public perception, DQ is about as close to Mario as any 3rd party game gets.  Pokemon's somewhat in the same camp, they're games that literally appeal to "everyone" on some level.  And by large, these sorts of games tend to do better on DS/Wii than PSP/PS3.  More niche, more targeted, less mainstream, core games tend to better on PSP/PS3 than DS/Wii though, games like Winning Eleven, Musou, Megaten or Tales.  These games have a more focused fanbase makeup though, with fewer casual fans making up their overall base comparably... this is the reason FFXIII undershot what the series managed last gen, because the more casual auidence wasn't there on PS3 to push numbers like they were on PS2.  Basically, the bigger the brand, the more important that huge mainstream userbsae becomes.

I'd say the same of Ninokuni chiefly due to the Ghibli connection... Ghibli's also very much an "everyone" brand at this point in Japan, and if L5 handles it right, the game could be absolutely huge.  The upper threshold for "huge" is more relaible on Wii than PS3 though, there a reason games on Wii in Japan can actually cross 2 million sold.

Jarrod is right in the case of Japan

a lack of casual audience on PS3 in Japan led to FFXIII, Hot Shots Golf and even MGS4 not doing the best their series has done before in that region, And the same will happen to GT5

The west is a completely different story.


MNG would undoubtedly sell better on Wii. One of the main reasons it underperformed on PS3 is because it came out in 2007 where the PS3 was still expensive as shit. MGS4 would outsell all other MGS if a Subsistence version was made, even if the Subsistence version was made multiplat. FFXIII is a mediocre piece of software with a bad word of mouth, reading 2ch at that time you could see people badmouthing it. Read the thread where we are talking about Wada driving SE to the ground, I touch on the diminishing value of FF as a whole and the new scores for FFXIV further prove my point. 



M.U.G.E.N on 09 October 2010

Monster Hunter is crazy good....but kirby makes me sad :(



In-Kat-We-Trust Brigade!

"This world is Merciless, and it's also very beautiful"

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Pyramid12 on 10 October 2010

GT5 still going good but it needs to increase a bit, but it will definitly reach more than 400 points by launch maybe even 500.



darthdevidem01 on 10 October 2010
ElGranCabeza said:
darthdevidem01 said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said


Again, I disagree. DQ is everyone but not in the sense of a Karaoke Joysound or DecaSport, same with NiNoKuni, I think anything that has some kind of core appeal will sell more on PS3 even if they are mainstream (DQ, NiNoKuni, FF,MH). We're gonna have to stop here because we're not gonna agree on this and we'll most likely never find out :P

Again, DQ is "everyone"  in the same exact way Mario is "everyone".  And that's why it'd better on Wii versus PS3, just as Mario would.  Ditto for Ninokuni, and I'd even say something like FF might've done better on Wii.  They're all games that attract both casual and core audiences, they're fundamentally crossover games, and crossover games sell best on Wii.

I'd also say Karaoke Joysound or Deca Sports isn't at all "everyone".

No it's not.

Yes, it really is.  In terms of brand stength, historical significance and public perception, DQ is about as close to Mario as any 3rd party game gets.  Pokemon's somewhat in the same camp, they're games that literally appeal to "everyone" on some level.  And by large, these sorts of games tend to do better on DS/Wii than PSP/PS3.  More niche, more targeted, less mainstream, core games tend to better on PSP/PS3 than DS/Wii though, games like Winning Eleven, Musou, Megaten or Tales.  These games have a more focused fanbase makeup though, with fewer casual fans making up their overall base comparably... this is the reason FFXIII undershot what the series managed last gen, because the more casual auidence wasn't there on PS3 to push numbers like they were on PS2.  Basically, the bigger the brand, the more important that huge mainstream userbsae becomes.

I'd say the same of Ninokuni chiefly due to the Ghibli connection... Ghibli's also very much an "everyone" brand at this point in Japan, and if L5 handles it right, the game could be absolutely huge.  The upper threshold for "huge" is more relaible on Wii than PS3 though, there a reason games on Wii in Japan can actually cross 2 million sold.

Jarrod is right in the case of Japan

a lack of casual audience on PS3 in Japan led to FFXIII, Hot Shots Golf and even MGS4 not doing the best their series has done before in that region, And the same will happen to GT5

The west is a completely different story.


MNG would undoubtedly sell better on Wii. One of the main reasons it underperformed on PS3 is because it came out in 2007 where the PS3 was still expensive as shit. MGS4 would outsell all other MGS if a Subsistence version was made, even if the Subsistence version was made multiplat. FFXIII is a mediocre piece of software with a bad word of mouth, reading 2ch at that time you could see people badmouthing it. Read the thread where we are talking about Wada driving SE to the ground, I touch on the diminishing value of FF as a whole and the new scores for FFXIV further prove my point. 

A game that comes 3rd in the best games of all time list in Famitsu voted by readers doesn't have a "bad word of mouth".........oh but Famitsu doesn't count does it? Its very easy to say something has a bad word of mouth by looking at forums. And its mediocre according to you, amazing according to me and millions of other people.

If FF is a diminishing brand FF13 won't be very close to becoming the most successful FF in Europe since FF7, and in America it won't be close to becoming the 3rd best selling FF. Both things that it will achieve pretty soon that too with being on a lower userbase than PS2 was at and that horrible leona lewis marketing campaign which put people off. Now this isn't a sign of a game with bad word of mouth and a franchise of diminishing value. In Japan you can make the argument because its the lowest selling one since FF4 there, yet it ranks in the best games ever in a very popular magazine in Japan......clearly there is a large discrepancy between opinions on the game.

Next be sure to look at user reviews for FF13 and FF12 accross the net, you'll find the vast majority are positive. 

When you wanna see if a series is diminishing you need to analyze all of this, not forum posts, metacritic and personal opinion. 

The fact remains FFIX is still the lowest selling in the series since FF7.....when a main FF sells less than that we'll talk about it diminishing. FF won't be immune to decline if a truly bad FF is released, Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot and Sonic weren't immune to it either.....yet nothing like that has happened to the FF franchise so we can safely say its yet to have its, "Angel of darkness", "Whatever the first bad Crash Bandicoot and Sonic games were".

FFXIV may very well be the first FF with a bad word of mouth.....but even then its a MMO and things can be solved by updates and you just don't have a lot of FF fans caring for it.......many I know don't even know about its low reviews score, nor will they really care. We can't comment on this until a few months in and until we know the state of subscriptions the game has and whether people are sticking to it or leaving it.

Next I am not going to call the company that released FFXIII, DQIX, NIER and KH:BBS in one year going into the ground because its rare that I see such variety and excellence coming from a developer.



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

Hero_time88 on 10 October 2010

 

I think that FFXIII could have done better, but then again, the word of mouth wasn't nearly as positive as it could been and the series already started selling worse on the PS2, so I don't know it's interily the PS3 fault. I think that a similar product on the PS2 probably would have sold worse than FFXII based on how the series have done during the last decade in Japan. Perhaps 200k more or so, but not a huge deal (aside from production costs).

Also, a lot here say that MHIII sold great on the Wii, because it outsold the PS2 entries, which was before the "monster hunter boom" that happened during the PSP-era, but pretty much every analyst in Japan agrees that it underperformed, and that also is a game appeals to a wide audience, like kids, teenagers and adults there.

.



ElGranCabeza on 10 October 2010
darthdevidem01 said:
ElGranCabeza said:
darthdevidem01 said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said:
jarrod said:
ElGranCabeza said


Again, I disagree. DQ is everyone but not in the sense of a Karaoke Joysound or DecaSport, same with NiNoKuni, I think anything that has some kind of core appeal will sell more on PS3 even if they are mainstream (DQ, NiNoKuni, FF,MH). We're gonna have to stop here because we're not gonna agree on this and we'll most likely never find out :P

Again, DQ is "everyone"  in the same exact way Mario is "everyone".  And that's why it'd better on Wii versus PS3, just as Mario would.  Ditto for Ninokuni, and I'd even say something like FF might've done better on Wii.  They're all games that attract both casual and core audiences, they're fundamentally crossover games, and crossover games sell best on Wii.

I'd also say Karaoke Joysound or Deca Sports isn't at all "everyone".

No it's not.

Yes, it really is.  In terms of brand stength, historical significance and public perception, DQ is about as close to Mario as any 3rd party game gets.  Pokemon's somewhat in the same camp, they're games that literally appeal to "everyone" on some level.  And by large, these sorts of games tend to do better on DS/Wii than PSP/PS3.  More niche, more targeted, less mainstream, core games tend to better on PSP/PS3 than DS/Wii though, games like Winning Eleven, Musou, Megaten or Tales.  These games have a more focused fanbase makeup though, with fewer casual fans making up their overall base comparably... this is the reason FFXIII undershot what the series managed last gen, because the more casual auidence wasn't there on PS3 to push numbers like they were on PS2.  Basically, the bigger the brand, the more important that huge mainstream userbsae becomes.

I'd say the same of Ninokuni chiefly due to the Ghibli connection... Ghibli's also very much an "everyone" brand at this point in Japan, and if L5 handles it right, the game could be absolutely huge.  The upper threshold for "huge" is more relaible on Wii than PS3 though, there a reason games on Wii in Japan can actually cross 2 million sold.

Jarrod is right in the case of Japan

a lack of casual audience on PS3 in Japan led to FFXIII, Hot Shots Golf and even MGS4 not doing the best their series has done before in that region, And the same will happen to GT5

The west is a completely different story.


MNG would undoubtedly sell better on Wii. One of the main reasons it underperformed on PS3 is because it came out in 2007 where the PS3 was still expensive as shit. MGS4 would outsell all other MGS if a Subsistence version was made, even if the Subsistence version was made multiplat. FFXIII is a mediocre piece of software with a bad word of mouth, reading 2ch at that time you could see people badmouthing it. Read the thread where we are talking about Wada driving SE to the ground, I touch on the diminishing value of FF as a whole and the new scores for FFXIV further prove my point. 

A game that comes 3rd in the best games of all time list in Famitsu voted by readers doesn't have a "bad word of mouth".........oh but Famitsu doesn't count does it? Its very easy to say something has a bad word of mouth by looking at forums. And its mediocre according to you, amazing according to me and millions of other people.

If FF is a diminishing brand FF13 won't be very close to becoming the most successful FF in Europe since FF7, and in America it won't be close to becoming the 3rd best selling FF. Both things that it will achieve pretty soon that too with being on a lower userbase than PS2 was at and that horrible leona lewis marketing campaign which put people off. Now this isn't a sign of a game with bad word of mouth and a franchise of diminishing value. In Japan you can make the argument because its the lowest selling one since FF4 there, yet it ranks in the best games ever in a very popular magazine in Japan......clearly there is a large discrepancy between opinions on the game.

Next be sure to look at user reviews for FF13 and FF12 accross the net, you'll find the vast majority are positive. 

When you wanna see if a series is diminishing you need to analyze all of this, not forum posts, metacritic and personal opinion. 

The fact remains FFIX is still the lowest selling in the series since FF7.....when a main FF sells less than that we'll talk about it diminishing. FF won't be immune to decline if a truly bad FF is released, Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot and Sonic weren't immune to it either.....yet nothing like that has happened to the FF franchise so we can safely say its yet to have its, "Angel of darkness", "Whatever the first bad Crash Bandicoot and Sonic games were".

FFXIV may very well be the first FF with a bad word of mouth.....but even then its a MMO and things can be solved by updates and you just don't have a lot of FF fans caring for it.......many I know don't even know about its low reviews score, nor will they really care. We can't comment on this until a few months in and until we know the state of subscriptions the game has and whether people are sticking to it or leaving it.

Next I am not going to call the company that released FFXIII, DQIX, NIER and KH:BBS in one year going into the ground because its rare that I see such variety and excellence coming from a developer.


I would give you an elaborate reply as to why FFXIII is crap and why it has a bad word of mouth. I would also give you a more elaborate reply as to why the FF brand is diminishing and SE as a whole is losing value and market mindshare. I won't though because from your post I can tell it wouldn't go anywhere, so I'll tell you the same thing I told the other dude, let's just agree to disagree here.



ivanpgcs on 10 October 2010

Last week Japan preview says that GT5 grow 20k preorders. 25k this week?