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Forums - PC Discussion - The Gaming PC Building/Upgrade Thread

Garcian Smith said:
fenderlove01 said:

But it would be kind of dumb not to get a gpu that supports directx 11, because within the near future many pc games will be using directx 11. And if you dont get a gpu that supports it then you wont get to play with the full experience, plus you can buy a 5750 and a 5770 for pretty cheap. 

What do you consider "the near future"? At the moment, there's only a couple of DX11 games worth playing (Stalker CoP, Battlefield BC2, and Dirt 2) and all three of those run just fine on a DX10 card. And check out the ones that are announced: it's just Crysis 2, Metro 2033, and a handful of MMOs.

It's the same situation as when DX10 came out: People rushed out to become early adopters, and then games continued to be developed primarily for DX9 for years. It's only in the past year that we've finally seen a handful of DX10-only games. Don't be a sucker and fall for the same tricks again.

@ GreyianStorm: The recommended builds in the OP have already become outdated, sadly. I'll have to get around to updating them soon. In the meantime, I'll ask a mod for a sticky.

This situation is completely different. DX10/10.1 are subsets of DX11. So a developer only has to support both DX11 and DX9 or can completely migrate away from DX10. The major advantage is the compute shader which speeds up post processing effects which are starting to take up a significant proportion of frame time.



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Twistedpixel said:

This situation is completely different. DX10/10.1 are subsets of DX11. So a developer only has to support both DX11 and DX9 or can completely migrate away from DX10. The major advantage is the compute shader which speeds up post processing effects which are starting to take up a significant proportion of frame time.

Except, with only like 3% of gamers using DX11 cards at the present time, most developers aren't going to bother.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Garcian Smith said:
Twistedpixel said:

This situation is completely different. DX10/10.1 are subsets of DX11. So a developer only has to support both DX11 and DX9 or can completely migrate away from DX10. The major advantage is the compute shader which speeds up post processing effects which are starting to take up a significant proportion of frame time.

Except, with only like 3% of gamers using DX11 cards at the present time, most developers aren't going to bother.

48.94% use DX10 or DX10.1 or 11. So half the market is supported by implementing DX11. If a developer supports DX11 they automatically support DX10/10.1, the difference being that the latter cards run the same effects albeit slower. In addition to this, most people keep their graphics cards for at least two years before upgrading. So the nature of the market in 6 months or 12 months time is still relevant. You'd be as wrong saying that developers aren't going to adopt DX11 as you would be if you said that a stone won't roll down hill.



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Twistedpixel said:

48.94% use DX10 or DX10.1 or 11. So half the market is supported by implementing DX11. If a developer supports DX11 they automatically support DX10/10.1, the difference being that the latter cards run the same effects albeit slower. In addition to this, most people keep their graphics cards for at least two years before upgrading. So the nature of the market in 6 months or 12 months time is still relevant. You'd be as wrong saying that developers aren't going to adopt DX11 as you would be if you said that a stone won't roll down hill.

Then why not buy a DX11 card in 18 months when DX11 will really start to matter and the cards on the market now will be obsolete anyway? You're missing the point.

Of course, once DX11 takes over the market completely (as it will once ATI phases out the 4850 and NVidia finally releases their Femri line) this'll all be moot, since all of my recommended cards will be DX11-compliant.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Garcian Smith said:
Twistedpixel said:

48.94% use DX10 or DX10.1 or 11. So half the market is supported by implementing DX11. If a developer supports DX11 they automatically support DX10/10.1, the difference being that the latter cards run the same effects albeit slower. In addition to this, most people keep their graphics cards for at least two years before upgrading. So the nature of the market in 6 months or 12 months time is still relevant. You'd be as wrong saying that developers aren't going to adopt DX11 as you would be if you said that a stone won't roll down hill.

Then why not buy a DX11 card in 18 months when DX11 will really start to matter and the cards on the market now will be obsolete anyway? You're missing the point.

Of course, once DX11 takes over the market completely (as it will once ATI phases out the 4850 and NVidia finally releases their Femri line) this'll all be moot, since all of my recommended cards will be DX11-compliant.


Because DirectX 11 adoption may be the fastest in the history of DirectX http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20091211120431_Transition_to_DirectX_11_Will_Be_Fastest_Ever_Analyst.html

In addition to this, someone buying a card today, will probably not upgrade in 18months and with a DX11 card will not have to upgrade nearly as quickly. If it means another 6 months of useful life then the card bought to replace the current card will either be cheaper or more powerful. If price of DX11 card and present performance ratio is close to or equal with previous DX10 card then the 1-2 year prospects will always favour the DX11 card. Only people who are shortsighted or intend to upgrade rapidly will see greater benefit in the DX10 range of cards.



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Twistedpixel said:


Because DirectX 11 adoption may be the fastest in the history of DirectX http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20091211120431_Transition_to_DirectX_11_Will_Be_Fastest_Ever_Analyst.html

In addition to this, someone buying a card today, will probably not upgrade in 18months and with a DX11 card will not have to upgrade nearly as quickly. If it means another 6 months of useful life then the card bought to replace the current card will either be cheaper or more powerful. If price of DX11 card and present performance ratio is close to or equal with previous DX10 card then the 1-2 year prospects will always favour the DX11 card. Only people who are shortsighted or intend to upgrade rapidly will see greater benefit in the DX10 range of cards.

So says... a "graphics market analyst"? Some no-name analyst who may or may not have received industry payola is not an authority on the graphics card market.

The fact is, the remaining ATI DX10 gaming cards (that would be the 4850 and 4770, since everything else has been phased out by this point) have absolutely nothing to match them at their $100 price point. I mean, what are gamers on a budget supposed to buy instead? The 5670? I guess they could pay an extra $40+ for a 5750, but that's only a small performance upgrade from the 4850 for not a small amount of money, and that card isn't good enough to run DX11 games anyway.

And besides that, most intelligent PC gamers (i.e. those who don't try to "future-proof") upgrade their graphics cards about once every 18 months anyway. It saves money and gets you a better product in the long run.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Sorry to bust up the DX 10/11 dispute, but can one of you recommend me a decent cpu temp monitoring program?  I used to use Speedfan on my laptop, but I'm assuming there are better ones out there? 

Also, I have Microsoft Security Essentials on my PC and it seems good, but the scans havent detected any spyware, which makes me nervous.  Is it just doing a better job of deflecting it than my old AVG, or is it a junk program?



If you waited 18 months after the debut of each version of Direct X to buy a VGA card, you'd either never buy a new card, or always buy a VGA card about 6-12 months before the next version of Direct X came out.

While it's not particularly intelligent to buy a VGA card specifically for DX11 compatibility when there are only a handful of DX11 games currently available, particularly the enthusiast models that command a premium, it's not particularly intelligent to wait almost until the same card is on the verge of being cut from production either despite the big difference in price unless price was the primary feature being shopped for.

Memories run short, but the EXACT SAME argument was levied against DX10 back when DX9 was the standard.

Unless you take this to mean skip every other version of Direct X when it comes to upgrading video cards DX11 compatibility is a good feature to have in a current VGA card.

The current GPU generation is a bit unusual thanks to Nvidia's Fermi delays, which meant prices on premium DX11 cards from ATI did not have to drop as they would have had their been any competition. Average price for the 5870/5850 is still $400/$300 or same (often more) as when they debuted 5-6 months ago. Still in "short supply" too.

A good time to buy a premium card is about after manufacturers drop about $100 off the original prices, usually less than a year after debut.



Epoch said:

Sorry to bust up the DX 10/11 dispute, but can one of you recommend me a decent cpu temp monitoring program?  I used to use Speedfan on my laptop, but I'm assuming there are better ones out there? 

Also, I have Microsoft Security Essentials on my PC and it seems good, but the scans havent detected any spyware, which makes me nervous.  Is it just doing a better job of deflecting it than my old AVG, or is it a junk program?

I use HWMonitor: http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php



Wii/PC/DS Lite/PSP-2000 owner, shameless Nintendo and AMD fanboy.

My comp, as shown to the right (click for fullsize pic)

CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T @ 3.2 GHz
Video Card: XFX 1 GB Radeon HD 5870
Memory: 8 GB A-Data DDR3-1600
Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD Pro/USB3
Primary Storage: OCZ Vertex 120 GB
Case: Cooler Master HAF-932
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Extra Storage: WD Caviar Black 640 GB,
WD Caviar Black 750 GB, WD Caviar Black 1 TB
Display: Triple ASUS 25.5" 1920x1200 monitors
Sound: HT Omega Striker 7.1 sound card,
Logitech X-540 5.1 speakers
Input: Logitech G5 mouse,
Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 keyboard
Wii Friend Code: 2772 8804 2626 5138 Steam: jefforange89
jefforange89 said:
Epoch said:

Sorry to bust up the DX 10/11 dispute, but can one of you recommend me a decent cpu temp monitoring program?  I used to use Speedfan on my laptop, but I'm assuming there are better ones out there? 

Also, I have Microsoft Security Essentials on my PC and it seems good, but the scans havent detected any spyware, which makes me nervous.  Is it just doing a better job of deflecting it than my old AVG, or is it a junk program?

I use HWMonitor: http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php

Sweet, thanks!  Works great, Everything seems to be running about 33 degress C.  Seems pretty normal to me.