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Forums - Sony Discussion - Why Sony should leave the video game hardware business

It's not Sony's fault that third-parties aren't doing so well, honestly, they don't HAVE to program for the Ps3, if they invest the money in programming for it, they know what they're getting into arleady. And everyone knows that money isn't made on the consoles themselves, it's on the peripherals and the first party software.....You and your "More expensive" arguments mean nothing...people are willing to pay, and do pay to have the upgrades when they have the money. It's all about personal preference, man.



Just waiting for that PS Vita to come out so I can play some full featured games on the go with that beautiful screen and control scheme...

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VictorG said:
jneul said:
VictorG said:
jneul said:
VictorG maybe I should create a thread explaining why vgchartz should ban you, these thread are pointless and only start wars


At least my thread has actual points to it.  If you don't want to discuss them then leave this thread but don't try to make a thinly veiled ban threat again.  Lets get back on topic people, no more attempts at thread derailment.

You may have made points, but you won't be makin many friends here, and that was not a ban threat,, I am so sick of xxx is doomed or xxx should leave, can't we all just enjoy our consoles without blantant attempts to start arguments.

How would you like it if someone else made a similar thread about Microsoft or Nintendo (I don't know who you support)??


I complained and nothing was done about the one in the Microsoft Forum. it's still open.  I decided to make one with some real points of discussion to it because I feel if any company should leave it should be Sony and I spelled out the reasons why.  People are free to debate those reasons which are far more legitimate than the threads simply stating "X console should leave video games" with no actual real points given.


That thread never said MS should leave the videogame business, it's point was to ask if ANYONE THOUGHT that, and what points/arguments they had for that. You completely misread that.

"Anyone here believe or hope that Microsoft will end up taking such a loss in the videogame industry that they will drop out and stop making videogame systems?  If so, is it just a fantasy you are sure won't happen, or do you actually believe it is possible?  If it is possible, how do you see it coming about?  Thinking stuff, at least, along the lines of Sega or Atari.  In short, no longer have a console on the market."



That's right, just one "d"

In b4 "it's addict"
-----------------------------------------------
Add me:


  • Nowhere near bankrupt, do you know how many assets they have? Lol
  • Share price rising. Over 30 now.
  • Aim to break even/be profitable soon
  • Can become 3D market leaders. 3D is popular.
  • Investors are advising to buy Sony stock now.
  • Still have a huge brand name.
  • PS3 selling at a much faster rate than the 360 despite being much more expensive.
  • Winning 3 Generations in a row is crazy.
  • Make good hardware, unlike some.


VictorG said:

Why Sony should leave the video game hardware business


Creatively bankrupt

With the constant stealing of ideas from both Microsoft and Nintendo it has become increasingly apparent that Sony has become creatively bankrupt this generation.  It’s no wonder that Phil Harrison left Sony when he did as it must have seemed incredibly frustrating for him to witness his bosses in Japan blunder and lose everything because of a lack of vision.  Think about this, Sony is the only console maker this generation that hasn’t had any of their ideas stolen.  Not one single idea they’ve had in the last three years has proven to be worthy enough for the competition to even want to steal.

 

Rest of the company is going to hell in a handbasket

With their computer and television market shares under intense siege you would think Sony would bunker down and focus their efforts on their mass market offerings and attempt to stop the upstarts before it’s too late.  Not Sony, they’ve decided instead to focus on what will obviously be the niche 3D market that won’t see any type of real market share for years to come.  Why focus on the 90+% of the market when you can focus on the niche ones?

Then there’s a “What the hell are they thinking?” moments like allowing Sam Raimi and Toby Maguire to walk away from Spider-Man 4.  Seriously was there ever a more sure thing than Spider-Man 4 with those two?  Instead Sony wants to risk a reboot on their most lucrative franchise.  Hello?  At a time when Sony is losing money and hoping to start making some in a few years you don’t go messing with the few things in the company that are actually working.

 

Increased game development costs

It’s nearly impossible to miss the stories of lay offs in the video game industry these days.  Just 18 minutes before I started typing this for example there was a story posted at Joystiq about Rebellion closing a studio.  With things as bad as they are the industry needs to look at ways of cutting costs.  One obvious way would be to streamline development costs across platforms.  With Microsoft owning Windows they obviously are leveraging it to make Xbox 360 and Windows development as seamless and attractive as possible.  Sony on the other hand is marching to a different drummer and adding unnecessary costs to third-parties.  Imagine how much cheaper and easier it would be for third-parties if the PS3 with its cell processor and blu-ray drive didn’t exist.  Instead of multiple teams they could have just one with only a small part of it having to worry about the few differences between 360 and Windows development.

 

Increased competition on the same platform

Imagine the added incentive for development studios to up their game when they’re competing on the same platform.  Games like Forza and Gran Turismo appearing on the same platform would directly impact each others sales leading to even more intense competition between them.  Games like Killzone 2 instead of being disconnected from the main FPS fanbase would instead be a part of it and have more of an impact and a lasting impression in the competition between FPS games.  It would also give the chance for Sony’s games to be appreciated by a wider audience.

 

Leave while the Playstation name still means something

With even more losses expected for Sony there’s a real chance it could spell disaster for the Playstation 3 and any possible successor.  The Dreamcast failed partly because Sega simply didn’t have the money needed to continue competing and Sony may find itself in the same boat next generation.  Instead of risking another console launch when they have a history of losing money on hardware maybe it’s time to leave it to others that have proven themselves to be capable of actually making a profit off hardware.  It would also save their third-parties from suffering if they do launch another console and things go bad for it.

 

-The End

 

Sometimes you just want to choke a b!tch.



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BigBoobieHead said:
  • Aim to break even/be profitable soon

Hugely questionable imo.  SCE's been pushing the "profitable next year" line for 3 years running now, I'm not sure why people are contuially so eager to give them the benefit of the doubt?  Especially now that we have rumors of additional pricecuts next year?

PS3's also looking at an overall net loss of around $5 Billion so far, and this is even factoring in profits coming in from PS2 and PSP.  I'm doubt the platform can ever truly "break even" at this point, it's been a bigger moneysink than even the original Xbox.

 

BigBoobieHead said:
  • Winning 3 Generations in a row is crazy.

I dunno, Nintendo did it with handhelds (GB, GBA, DS).  Sony was heavily favored going into this gen, both console and handheld side, it really was theirs to lose...



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deskpro2k3 said:
VictorG said:

Why Sony should leave the video game hardware business


Creatively bankrupt

With the constant stealing of ideas from both Microsoft and Nintendo it has become increasingly apparent that Sony has become creatively bankrupt this generation.  It’s no wonder that Phil Harrison left Sony when he did as it must have seemed incredibly frustrating for him to witness his bosses in Japan blunder and lose everything because of a lack of vision.  Think about this, Sony is the only console maker this generation that hasn’t had any of their ideas stolen.  Not one single idea they’ve had in the last three years has proven to be worthy enough for the competition to even want to steal.

 

Rest of the company is going to hell in a handbasket

With their computer and television market shares under intense siege you would think Sony would bunker down and focus their efforts on their mass market offerings and attempt to stop the upstarts before it’s too late.  Not Sony, they’ve decided instead to focus on what will obviously be the niche 3D market that won’t see any type of real market share for years to come.  Why focus on the 90+% of the market when you can focus on the niche ones?

Then there’s a “What the hell are they thinking?” moments like allowing Sam Raimi and Toby Maguire to walk away from Spider-Man 4.  Seriously was there ever a more sure thing than Spider-Man 4 with those two?  Instead Sony wants to risk a reboot on their most lucrative franchise.  Hello?  At a time when Sony is losing money and hoping to start making some in a few years you don’t go messing with the few things in the company that are actually working.

 

Increased game development costs

It’s nearly impossible to miss the stories of lay offs in the video game industry these days.  Just 18 minutes before I started typing this for example there was a story posted at Joystiq about Rebellion closing a studio.  With things as bad as they are the industry needs to look at ways of cutting costs.  One obvious way would be to streamline development costs across platforms.  With Microsoft owning Windows they obviously are leveraging it to make Xbox 360 and Windows development as seamless and attractive as possible.  Sony on the other hand is marching to a different drummer and adding unnecessary costs to third-parties.  Imagine how much cheaper and easier it would be for third-parties if the PS3 with its cell processor and blu-ray drive didn’t exist.  Instead of multiple teams they could have just one with only a small part of it having to worry about the few differences between 360 and Windows development.

 

Increased competition on the same platform

Imagine the added incentive for development studios to up their game when they’re competing on the same platform.  Games like Forza and Gran Turismo appearing on the same platform would directly impact each others sales leading to even more intense competition between them.  Games like Killzone 2 instead of being disconnected from the main FPS fanbase would instead be a part of it and have more of an impact and a lasting impression in the competition between FPS games.  It would also give the chance for Sony’s games to be appreciated by a wider audience.

 

Leave while the Playstation name still means something

With even more losses expected for Sony there’s a real chance it could spell disaster for the Playstation 3 and any possible successor.  The Dreamcast failed partly because Sega simply didn’t have the money needed to continue competing and Sony may find itself in the same boat next generation.  Instead of risking another console launch when they have a history of losing money on hardware maybe it’s time to leave it to others that have proven themselves to be capable of actually making a profit off hardware.  It would also save their third-parties from suffering if they do launch another console and things go bad for it.

 

-The End

 

Sometimes you just want to choke a b!tch.

This.



jneul said:
VictorG said:
jneul said:
VictorG said:
jneul said:
VictorG maybe I should create a thread explaining why vgchartz should ban you, these thread are pointless and only start wars


At least my thread has actual points to it.  If you don't want to discuss them then leave this thread but don't try to make a thinly veiled ban threat again.  Lets get back on topic people, no more attempts at thread derailment.

You may have made points, but you won't be makin many friends here, and that was not a ban threat,, I am so sick of xxx is doomed or xxx should leave, can't we all just enjoy our consoles without blantant attempts to start arguments.

How would you like it if someone else made a similar thread about Microsoft or Nintendo (I don't know who you support)??


I complained and nothing was done about the one in the Microsoft Forum. it's still open.  I decided to make one with some real points of discussion to it because I feel if any company should leave it should be Sony and I spelled out the reasons why.  People are free to debate those reasons which are far more legitimate than the threads simply stating "X console should leave video games" with no actual real points given.

yeh i just found your comment and may I quote

"Anyone that goes into a forum dedicated to a particular console and asks members for reasons why the manufacturer of that console should get out of the video game business is trolling.

How did this thread get to 5 pages without a mod noticing it? It's been reported."

That is exactly what you said, so you are trolling then, and you have just lowered your standards


You missed a key fact, the other thread is asking for reasons why the console maker should get out of the video game business period, it's a thread based on wishful thinking. not any kind of real discussion with a key set of points.  Mine presents key points on why it might be better for the industry if Sony left the hardware side and nowhere have I stated they should leave the software side.



VictorG said:
Scoobes said:
VictorG said:
Scoobes said:
Errr... no.

If we didn't have Sony then we wouldn't have 256 players online at the sametime in the same game. X-box Live and Wii's online infrastructure don't handle that sorta thing.

If we didn't have Sony we wouldn't have dedicated servers in console games (related to point above).

If we didn't have Sony we wouldn't have user-created content and mods appearing in console games like LBP and Unreal Tournament 3.

So Sony going is a good thing how?


Why not?  What is the technical limitation that won't allow 256 players on Live?  A game can have dedicated servers on Live if a publisher chooses to have them.

Then why do even first-party games not have dedicated servers? If MS aren't going to push there own system then they can't expect other groups to do so. MS are charging for Live and most games don't have dedicated servers. PSN is free and first-party titles have dedicated server support.  So how would Sony leaving be good for consumers? It would just mean MS could get away with a monpoly where they can charge as much as they want for P2P online. And what about the mod issue? Even Epic, who have a close partnership with MS have said how they prefer the freedom of PSN over a closed system.

And believe it or not, but some people do prefer to have a system where the accesseries are not overpriced (which is odd considering it's Sony). I bought a 320Gb HDD for less than the cost of a 120Gb 360HDD. I get Wi-fi out the box. And although you might not like Blu-Ray others do, and if 3D does take off in the future (which I think it will by the end of the gen after seeing Avatar), the PS3 will already support it.

So no, I don't think Sony should leave. We need the competition, and 3 companies comming up with ideas for the "next big thing" is better than 2.


What other games on PS3 are to have 256 players?  You seem to be bogged down in specifics when this thread is about the Playstation 3 as a whole bringing down Sony and hurting the industry.  There's nothing stoping Sony from making a 256 player gamer for the 360.

I like how you only answer a single one of my points and ignore the rest. But my point is BECAUSE Sony is a platform holder they're willing to push the bar to differentiate there console from others. If they didn't have that hardware side they'd be less willing to push these titles. Same as MS and Live and Wii with Wii Sports. If you want sweeping generalisations then you should have said so.

Let's look at this generation without Sony hardware:

HD-DVD would win the format war, Sony wouldn't get any royalties. HD would be a lot less popular as HD-DVD players wouldn't even come close to the combined sales PS3 & Blu-Ray. This could potentially also hit Sony's Bravia range of TVs and movie studios.

We wouldn't have any mods or user-generated on any consoles.

Total sales of HD consoles would be a lot less. Sony would likely make PC & 360 games along with the majority of publishers. PC gamers such as myself wouldn't rush to buy an HD console, as they're isn't enough differentiation between the 2 (My 360 was a present btw). Most people with a PS2 would likely make the jump to Wii, not 360. And without a PS3 slim, they probably wouldn't know any better.

Linked to above: MS wouldn't have to reduce the price of 360 as quickly as they did as they don't have a direct competitor. The $200 price point would probably only just have been reached holiday season just gone.

MS wouldn't have made as many improvements to Live and in all likelihood would have increased the price of the subscription knowing that there is no competition- people wouldn't know any better.

360 gamers likely wouldn't have gotten so much exclusive DLC such as the GTA IV material; they don't have a rival anymore, all the GTA sales will be on 360 so who needs  to pay for DLC.

Games like MGS4, Uncharted 2 and other PS3 exclusives that make use of the hardare & Blu-Ray would be radically different in look, cinematics etc.

All FPS games Sony have released wouldn't fare anywhere near as well on 360 and PC where those markets are already oversaturated.

We would be forced to play beat-em-ups on the worlds worst D-pad.

Japanese games would be released on Wii and MS would have an even greater struggle in Japan.



Honestly, I think Sony would survive the shift to 3rd party worse than either Microsoft or Nintendo. They've invested arguably the most into their own development studios, but their results are also probably the worst in terms of sales these days... I also sort of doubt games like Killzone or Uncharted would find a more receptive audience on 360 and ditto for Loco Roco or Patapon on DS/Wii.

Look at Sega's strength as a first party (on par with Nintendo even) and what the transition to 3rd party did to them.



VictorG said:
So many people losing their jobs, so many possible games that will never see the light of day and nobody seems to want to discuss it. The fact is that Sony is partially responsible for the mess the industry is in and should do something about it.

ummm... so many people is losing their jobs and the only company that really make a real move against piracy that protects the developers and publishers and have the only console where is IMPOSSIBLE to pirate software is the part to blame and leave... that is a good argument you got there!



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