By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - DF: Housemarque interview reveals new details on 3D for PS3

Ssenkahdavic on 11 January 2010
Slimebeast said:
Why is they all nneed 120hz? Why doesnt 60 frames per second is enough? I mean thats 30 frames for each eye, 30fps is enuff in most games.

120hz/60hz (hz = cycles per second) and fps are two very different things.  Most tvs flicker at 60hz, so those 30fps games are drawn with 2 frames (or 4 times for 120hz tvs) per cycle.  This makes motion look more natural.  If your TV flickered at the exact same rate as your 30fps game, you/most people would suffer pretty bad headaches.  This is why most lights in your house flicker at 60hz. 

A blueray (in NA atleast) is 24fps.  For a 60hz tv, those images are drawn in a 3:2 ratio (first 3, second 2, etc per pass).  120hz takes away this problem by 120/24= 5 (a whole and easy number) so no need for 3:2 pulldown. 

For 3D, as they are saying, 120hz will be split twice for both of your eyes.  Either by 1 full signal of 1080p/720 @120hz or two 1080/720 signals @60hz (for each eye). Or if they use Checkerboard, they only need half of the full resolution per eye (still at 60hz)

 



 

  

The Only True Next Gen Game - Hero-U

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Robert A. Heinlein

Around the Network
disolitude on 11 January 2010
totalcluedo said:
disolitude said:
totalcluedo said:
kowenicki said:
@rainbird

samsung seem to be at the leading edge of all this... they won show awards for their TV's and for the 3d blu-ray player too.


Actually Sony are at the leading edge of this. Without Sony this new 3d wave wouldnt be happening. 3d has been around for decades but sony have brought the products to market that has enabled it to potentially go mass market. Movie cameras, projectors, blu-ray.

Lol...this again.

Holywood made 3D go mass market, not sony. If Sony didn't have a camera available James cameron would have chosen another 3D capable camera. There are dozens...

3D movies = holywood initiative

3D gaming = Nvidia domination on PC. Second rate scraps on consoles...

3D TVs = Samsung leads the pack

Only win for sony at CES was that PS3 will do 3D blurays. Thats awesome for PS3 owners.

Sony suxxorz, am i right?.

This new 3d craze was instigated by Sony. Without Sony it wouldnt be happening, 3d would still be there but as a sideshow. Bluray is very important to 3d as Sony said as far back as 2006, without it no mass market 3d. Sonys 3d broadcast cameras are regarded as revolutionary. You do know Sony owns one of the big 5 Hollwood studios?. The projectors.That's the core from where everything flows. Just because you hate Sony and are maybe insecure about things doesnt mean you can change history

In 2010 you'l get 3dtv's, blurays, cameras etc from Sony and other electronics giants. On the gaming front i'd expect a big push from them on the ps3.

 

 

Of course not. Sony Rullezzz! and everything ever done was Sony initiated.

Sure the projectors are imax/RealD technology and not sony, and sterescopic 3D has been around for over 20 years with this exact same tech, and Sony released only 1 theater release in 3D thus far compared to several from other studios, and they don't have a single 3D capable HD Tv on the market... But yes, Sony can take the credit for everything cause...well they made the PS3 and the cell.

Hell PS2 could do sterescopic 3D...sony are gods of 3D. http://www.i4u.com/section-viewarticle-112.html



Slimebeast on 11 January 2010
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Why is they all nneed 120hz? Why doesnt 60 frames per second is enough? I mean thats 30 frames for each eye, 30fps is enuff in most games.

120hz/60hz (hz = cycles per second) and fps are two very different things.  Most tvs flicker at 60hz, so those 30fps games are drawn with 2 frames (or 4 times for 120hz tvs) per cycle.  This makes motion look more natural.  If your TV flickered at the exact same rate as your 30fps game, you/most people would suffer pretty bad headaches.  This is why most lights in your house flicker at 60hz. 

A blueray (in NA atleast) is 24fps.  For a 60hz tv, those images are drawn in a 3:2 ratio (first 3, second 2, etc per pass).  120hz takes away this problem by 120/24= 5 (a whole and easy number) so no need for 3:2 pulldown. 

For 3D, as they are saying, 120hz will be split twice for both of your eyes.  Either by 1 full signal of 1080p/720 @120hz or two 1080/720 signals @60hz (for each eye). Or if they use Checkerboard, they only need half of the full resolution per eye (still at 60hz)

 

Im a lil too tired to explain properly, but what u write doesnt indicate anything special for 3D.

If say my TV or monitor is 100hz pr 60hz what does it matter when I usually aim for 30 frames per second in my PC games and it looks fine.

The question still is, why need 60 fps for 3D games (yes actually 120fps, but 60 for each eye) when 30fps is perfectly enough in normal games?



Ssenkahdavic on 11 January 2010
Slimebeast said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Why is they all nneed 120hz? Why doesnt 60 frames per second is enough? I mean thats 30 frames for each eye, 30fps is enuff in most games.

120hz/60hz (hz = cycles per second) and fps are two very different things.  Most tvs flicker at 60hz, so those 30fps games are drawn with 2 frames (or 4 times for 120hz tvs) per cycle.  This makes motion look more natural.  If your TV flickered at the exact same rate as your 30fps game, you/most people would suffer pretty bad headaches.  This is why most lights in your house flicker at 60hz. 

A blueray (in NA atleast) is 24fps.  For a 60hz tv, those images are drawn in a 3:2 ratio (first 3, second 2, etc per pass).  120hz takes away this problem by 120/24= 5 (a whole and easy number) so no need for 3:2 pulldown. 

For 3D, as they are saying, 120hz will be split twice for both of your eyes.  Either by 1 full signal of 1080p/720 @120hz or two 1080/720 signals @60hz (for each eye). Or if they use Checkerboard, they only need half of the full resolution per eye (still at 60hz)

 

Im a lil too tired to explain properly, but what u write doesnt indicate anything special for 3D.

If say my TV or monitor is 100hz pr 60hz what does it matter when I usually aim for 30 frames per second in my PC games and it looks fine.

The question still is, why need 60 fps for 3D games (yes actually 120fps, but 60 for each eye) when 30fps is perfectly enough in normal games?

Im just pointing out that FPS and hz (refresh rate) are in no way the same.   They cannot be interchanged as you have done.  The only way they can, is if both the output (fps) and the refresh rate of the monitor/tv/whatever are exactly the same (ie 30fps and 30hz).  In this case it works because 1 cycle = 1 frame.

 

 



 

  

The Only True Next Gen Game - Hero-U

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Robert A. Heinlein

theprof00 on 11 January 2010
disolitude said:
totalcluedo said:
disolitude said:
totalcluedo said:
kowenicki said:
@rainbird

samsung seem to be at the leading edge of all this... they won show awards for their TV's and for the 3d blu-ray player too.


Actually Sony are at the leading edge of this. Without Sony this new 3d wave wouldnt be happening. 3d has been around for decades but sony have brought the products to market that has enabled it to potentially go mass market. Movie cameras, projectors, blu-ray.

Lol...this again.

Holywood made 3D go mass market, not sony. If Sony didn't have a camera available James cameron would have chosen another 3D capable camera. There are dozens...

3D movies = holywood initiative

3D gaming = Nvidia domination on PC. Second rate scraps on consoles...

3D TVs = Samsung leads the pack

Only win for sony at CES was that PS3 will do 3D blurays. Thats awesome for PS3 owners.

Sony suxxorz, am i right?.

This new 3d craze was instigated by Sony. Without Sony it wouldnt be happening, 3d would still be there but as a sideshow. Bluray is very important to 3d as Sony said as far back as 2006, without it no mass market 3d. Sonys 3d broadcast cameras are regarded as revolutionary. You do know Sony owns one of the big 5 Hollwood studios?. The projectors.That's the core from where everything flows. Just because you hate Sony and are maybe insecure about things doesnt mean you can change history

In 2010 you'l get 3dtv's, blurays, cameras etc from Sony and other electronics giants. On the gaming front i'd expect a big push from them on the ps3.

 

 

Of course not. Sony Rullezzz! and everything ever done was Sony initiated.

This. Yes, no need to continue, you are 100% right, and I will now friend you.



Around the Network
Slimebeast on 12 January 2010
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Why is they all nneed 120hz? Why doesnt 60 frames per second is enough? I mean thats 30 frames for each eye, 30fps is enuff in most games.

120hz/60hz (hz = cycles per second) and fps are two very different things.  Most tvs flicker at 60hz, so those 30fps games are drawn with 2 frames (or 4 times for 120hz tvs) per cycle.  This makes motion look more natural.  If your TV flickered at the exact same rate as your 30fps game, you/most people would suffer pretty bad headaches.  This is why most lights in your house flicker at 60hz. 

A blueray (in NA atleast) is 24fps.  For a 60hz tv, those images are drawn in a 3:2 ratio (first 3, second 2, etc per pass).  120hz takes away this problem by 120/24= 5 (a whole and easy number) so no need for 3:2 pulldown. 

For 3D, as they are saying, 120hz will be split twice for both of your eyes.  Either by 1 full signal of 1080p/720 @120hz or two 1080/720 signals @60hz (for each eye). Or if they use Checkerboard, they only need half of the full resolution per eye (still at 60hz)

 

Im a lil too tired to explain properly, but what u write doesnt indicate anything special for 3D.

If say my TV or monitor is 100hz pr 60hz what does it matter when I usually aim for 30 frames per second in my PC games and it looks fine.

The question still is, why need 60 fps for 3D games (yes actually 120fps, but 60 for each eye) when 30fps is perfectly enough in normal games?

Im just pointing out that FPS and hz (refresh rate) are in no way the same.   They cannot be interchanged as you have done.  The only way they can, is if both the output (fps) and the refresh rate of the monitor/tv/whatever are exactly the same (ie 30fps and 30hz).  In this case it works because 1 cycle = 1 frame.

 

 

But then how do you explain that these 3D games require both a 120 frames per second output from the GPU and a TV screen that is capable of 120Hz?

It's my clear understanding that fps and Hz correlate.



totalcluedo on 12 January 2010
disolitude said:
totalcluedo said:
disolitude said:
totalcluedo said:
kowenicki said:
@rainbird

samsung seem to be at the leading edge of all this... they won show awards for their TV's and for the 3d blu-ray player too.


Actually Sony are at the leading edge of this. Without Sony this new 3d wave wouldnt be happening. 3d has been around for decades but sony have brought the products to market that has enabled it to potentially go mass market. Movie cameras, projectors, blu-ray.

Lol...this again.

Holywood made 3D go mass market, not sony. If Sony didn't have a camera available James cameron would have chosen another 3D capable camera. There are dozens...

3D movies = holywood initiative

3D gaming = Nvidia domination on PC. Second rate scraps on consoles...

3D TVs = Samsung leads the pack

Only win for sony at CES was that PS3 will do 3D blurays. Thats awesome for PS3 owners.

Sony suxxorz, am i right?.

This new 3d craze was instigated by Sony. Without Sony it wouldnt be happening, 3d would still be there but as a sideshow. Bluray is very important to 3d as Sony said as far back as 2006, without it no mass market 3d. Sonys 3d broadcast cameras are regarded as revolutionary. You do know Sony owns one of the big 5 Hollwood studios?. The projectors.That's the core from where everything flows. Just because you hate Sony and are maybe insecure about things doesnt mean you can change history

In 2010 you'l get 3dtv's, blurays, cameras etc from Sony and other electronics giants. On the gaming front i'd expect a big push from them on the ps3.

 

 

Of course not. Sony Rullezzz! and everything ever done was Sony initiated.

Sure the projectors are imax/RealD technology and not sony, and sterescopic 3D has been around for over 20 years with this exact same tech, and Sony released only 1 theater release in 3D thus far compared to several from other studios, and they don't have a single 3D capable HD Tv on the market... But yes, Sony can take the credit for everything cause...well they made the PS3 and the cell.

Hell PS2 could do sterescopic 3D...sony are gods of 3D. http://www.i4u.com/section-viewarticle-112.html

3D has been around for decades EVERYBODY knows that. Put very, very simply again 3D going mass market was a non starter until recently.



disolitude on 12 January 2010
Slimebeast said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Why is they all nneed 120hz? Why doesnt 60 frames per second is enough? I mean thats 30 frames for each eye, 30fps is enuff in most games.

120hz/60hz (hz = cycles per second) and fps are two very different things.  Most tvs flicker at 60hz, so those 30fps games are drawn with 2 frames (or 4 times for 120hz tvs) per cycle.  This makes motion look more natural.  If your TV flickered at the exact same rate as your 30fps game, you/most people would suffer pretty bad headaches.  This is why most lights in your house flicker at 60hz. 

A blueray (in NA atleast) is 24fps.  For a 60hz tv, those images are drawn in a 3:2 ratio (first 3, second 2, etc per pass).  120hz takes away this problem by 120/24= 5 (a whole and easy number) so no need for 3:2 pulldown. 

For 3D, as they are saying, 120hz will be split twice for both of your eyes.  Either by 1 full signal of 1080p/720 @120hz or two 1080/720 signals @60hz (for each eye). Or if they use Checkerboard, they only need half of the full resolution per eye (still at 60hz)

 

Im a lil too tired to explain properly, but what u write doesnt indicate anything special for 3D.

If say my TV or monitor is 100hz pr 60hz what does it matter when I usually aim for 30 frames per second in my PC games and it looks fine.

The question still is, why need 60 fps for 3D games (yes actually 120fps, but 60 for each eye) when 30fps is perfectly enough in normal games?

Im just pointing out that FPS and hz (refresh rate) are in no way the same.   They cannot be interchanged as you have done.  The only way they can, is if both the output (fps) and the refresh rate of the monitor/tv/whatever are exactly the same (ie 30fps and 30hz).  In this case it works because 1 cycle = 1 frame.

 

 

But then how do you explain that these 3D games require both a 120 frames per second output from the GPU and a TV screen that is capable of 120Hz?

It's my clear understanding that fps and Hz correlate.

They don't...

Here is an analogy.

Lets say you are someone that can stick a bannana up your butt 60 times and scream 60 times. You can not do 3D...

Ssenkahdavic up there can stick a bannana up his but 60 times, but he can fake it and scream 120 times...he is the current gen of "120 hz" TVs that you can buy in stores. Not real 120 hz. Can't do 3D.

Me on the other hand, I can stick a bannana up my butt 120 times and scream 120 times...I can do 3D.

 

Now back on subject...just because I can take the signal and show it 120 times doesn't mean that the video card will have a frame ready for me to show. If it doesn't...a gamer will experience chugg and slowdown. Everything will still be in 3D cause the screen is refreshing the signal and sending it to each eye...but the gameplay will chugg like a mofo.

Hope my bannana up the butt explanation helps.



Slimebeast on 12 January 2010
disolitude said:
Slimebeast said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Why is they all nneed 120hz? Why doesnt 60 frames per second is enough? I mean thats 30 frames for each eye, 30fps is enuff in most games.

120hz/60hz (hz = cycles per second) and fps are two very different things.  Most tvs flicker at 60hz, so those 30fps games are drawn with 2 frames (or 4 times for 120hz tvs) per cycle.  This makes motion look more natural.  If your TV flickered at the exact same rate as your 30fps game, you/most people would suffer pretty bad headaches.  This is why most lights in your house flicker at 60hz. 

A blueray (in NA atleast) is 24fps.  For a 60hz tv, those images are drawn in a 3:2 ratio (first 3, second 2, etc per pass).  120hz takes away this problem by 120/24= 5 (a whole and easy number) so no need for 3:2 pulldown. 

For 3D, as they are saying, 120hz will be split twice for both of your eyes.  Either by 1 full signal of 1080p/720 @120hz or two 1080/720 signals @60hz (for each eye). Or if they use Checkerboard, they only need half of the full resolution per eye (still at 60hz)

 

Im a lil too tired to explain properly, but what u write doesnt indicate anything special for 3D.

If say my TV or monitor is 100hz pr 60hz what does it matter when I usually aim for 30 frames per second in my PC games and it looks fine.

The question still is, why need 60 fps for 3D games (yes actually 120fps, but 60 for each eye) when 30fps is perfectly enough in normal games?

Im just pointing out that FPS and hz (refresh rate) are in no way the same.   They cannot be interchanged as you have done.  The only way they can, is if both the output (fps) and the refresh rate of the monitor/tv/whatever are exactly the same (ie 30fps and 30hz).  In this case it works because 1 cycle = 1 frame.

 

 

But then how do you explain that these 3D games require both a 120 frames per second output from the GPU and a TV screen that is capable of 120Hz?

It's my clear understanding that fps and Hz correlate.

They don't...

Here is an analogy.

Lets say you are someone that can stick a bannana up your butt 60 times and scream 60 times. You can not do 3D...

Ssenkahdavic up there can stick a bannana up his but 60 times, but he can fake it and scream 120 times...he is the current gen of "120 hz" TVs that you can buy in stores. Not real 120 hz. Can't do 3D.

Me on the other hand, I can stick a bannana up my butt 120 times and scream 120 times...I can do 3D.

 

Now back on subject...just because I can take the signal and show it 120 times doesn't mean that the video card will have a frame ready for me to show. If it doesn't...a gamer will experience chugg and slowdown. Everything will still be in 3D cause the screen is refreshing the signal and sending it to each eye...but the gameplay will chugg like a mofo.

Hope my bannana up the butt explanation helps.

No it didn't lol.



Rainbird on 12 January 2010
disolitude said:
Slimebeast said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
Slimebeast said:
Why is they all nneed 120hz? Why doesnt 60 frames per second is enough? I mean thats 30 frames for each eye, 30fps is enuff in most games.

120hz/60hz (hz = cycles per second) and fps are two very different things.  Most tvs flicker at 60hz, so those 30fps games are drawn with 2 frames (or 4 times for 120hz tvs) per cycle.  This makes motion look more natural.  If your TV flickered at the exact same rate as your 30fps game, you/most people would suffer pretty bad headaches.  This is why most lights in your house flicker at 60hz. 

A blueray (in NA atleast) is 24fps.  For a 60hz tv, those images are drawn in a 3:2 ratio (first 3, second 2, etc per pass).  120hz takes away this problem by 120/24= 5 (a whole and easy number) so no need for 3:2 pulldown. 

For 3D, as they are saying, 120hz will be split twice for both of your eyes.  Either by 1 full signal of 1080p/720 @120hz or two 1080/720 signals @60hz (for each eye). Or if they use Checkerboard, they only need half of the full resolution per eye (still at 60hz)

 

Im a lil too tired to explain properly, but what u write doesnt indicate anything special for 3D.

If say my TV or monitor is 100hz pr 60hz what does it matter when I usually aim for 30 frames per second in my PC games and it looks fine.

The question still is, why need 60 fps for 3D games (yes actually 120fps, but 60 for each eye) when 30fps is perfectly enough in normal games?

Im just pointing out that FPS and hz (refresh rate) are in no way the same.   They cannot be interchanged as you have done.  The only way they can, is if both the output (fps) and the refresh rate of the monitor/tv/whatever are exactly the same (ie 30fps and 30hz).  In this case it works because 1 cycle = 1 frame.

 

 

But then how do you explain that these 3D games require both a 120 frames per second output from the GPU and a TV screen that is capable of 120Hz?

It's my clear understanding that fps and Hz correlate.

They don't...

Here is an analogy.

Lets say you are someone that can stick a bannana up your butt 60 times and scream 60 times. You can not do 3D...

Ssenkahdavic up there can stick a bannana up his but 60 times, but he can fake it and scream 120 times...he is the current gen of "120 hz" TVs that you can buy in stores. Not real 120 hz. Can't do 3D.

Me on the other hand, I can stick a bannana up my butt 120 times and scream 120 times...I can do 3D.

 

Now back on subject...just because I can take the signal and show it 120 times doesn't mean that the video card will have a frame ready for me to show. If it doesn't...a gamer will experience chugg and slowdown. Everything will still be in 3D cause the screen is refreshing the signal and sending it to each eye...but the gameplay will chugg like a mofo.

Hope my bannana up the butt explanation helps.

That was one of the worst "anal"ogies ever (sorry, I had to say it xD). Honestly, no it didn't work.

But from what I've gathered, there needs to be a new frame ready for each of those 120 Hz for a proper 3D effect?