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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS3 smoothing beyond that of high-end PC graphics card

Procrastinato on 18 January 2010
youarebadatgames said:
Procrastinato said:
marc said:
Xoj said:

find a 299$ PC that can out put a game like kz2.

You asked for it... I think you should change your id to "open mouth insert foot" hehe just kidding ;-p

Check pricewatch.com. You can easily put something together that can play most anything at medium-high setting depending on framerate (equivalent to PS3 and 360 today), for about $300. Better yet, reuse the computer parts you already have at home. You can re-use your chasis, cpu, memory, & drives. You might even be able to use your old mobo if it has a pci-e slot & your psu if the card you select doesnt need extra juice. All you need is a $60-$100 GPU and youre set.

Unfortunatly, the problem with PC's has never been price. Even when the consoles came out you could have had a more powerful PC for less. The problem has always been lack of standardization (to make it like a console and eliminate technical problems), and lack of support from companies that make a lot more money from royalties on propietary consoles. Its just a matter of time however.

Um.  I gotta agree with Xoj here.  I'll use pricewatch el-cheapo prices.

 

To put together a PC capable of running games of that quality, you'd need:

* a motherboard with a PCIe socket and modern multi-core CPU socket, as well as decent bus speed (you could probably get a reliable one for ~$70)

* A quality case, that cools okay. (~$20-40, depending on how many fans and what GPU you get)

* Sufficient cooling fans (~$10-$30)

* A power supply -- probably 500W-ish for the components needed (~$40)

* a multi-core CPU -- the Cell is faster than all but server-grade i7s, but you can probably get by with emulating a 360 Xenon with your PC instead (~$100)

* Memory -- probably 2GB, since the OS is such a hog on PCs. (~$120)

* a HDD -- a good 120GB is fine. (~$40 secondhand -- you can't really find 120GB drives anymore)

* A DVD or BD drive (~$40 for DVD)

* A Graphics card at least as good as the higher-end ATI HD 3000 series or NVidia 7800 GTX (~$80-$100 new). In the PS3's case, you'd need more horsepower than a 7800 GTX, because the Cell can assist the GPU on a separate bus.  On a 360 you'd need more than a 7800 GTX because the 360s GPU is faster than a 7800 GTX, plain and simple.

*  Possibly an audio card, if your MB doesn't support decent sound (we'll pretend your MB is good enough)

*  A network adapter, if your MB doesn't have (we'll say you are an awesome MB shopper, and it also has this)

* A wireless game controller, which ships in the console boxes, and is included in the console price as well.  We'll use a wired mouse + KB, since they are cheaper than controllers, usually, and PC gamers love to sit 2 feet or less from their tiny monitors, which we aren't including in this price comparison. (~$15 + $15 = $30)

 

Total (minimums, form above): 70 + 20 + 10 + 40 + 100 + 120 + 40 + 80 + 30 = $510

Kinda... not very close to $300.  Even if my minimums are off by a little, or you are an amazing eBay shopper, you're not going to be able to put together a PC even close to what a PS3 or 360 can do, games-wise, for the same price -- even today.

This is so out of date it's not even funny, 2GB of ram for $120?

http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3563&p=2

Base system is $283 w/integrated ATI 3200.  And that's using some good value parts, you could easily go cheaper on that build.

Add in a $100 4850 and you have something that shits all over 360/PS3.  Might be a tad more expensive than 300, but you get something a lot better.

BS.  Memory... sure, you can get cheaper, depending on the MB you buy.

Lets see a full workup, with links.  Include everything I did.  Verify that the GFX card you select outperforms the Xenos with another link, because the 4650 is the $100 ATI card, not the 4850.



 

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youarebadatgames on 18 January 2010

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102824
4850 512 MB

Of course it outperforms Xenos, look at any benchmark for multiplat games, it has higher details and higher resolution, and better frame rates. And the workup is in the anandtech article. You're not seriously going to argue that a 4850 is slower than the Xenos, are you?



youarebadatgames on 18 January 2010

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/Left4Dead,Marque_fbrandx4,Prix_fpricex0b100,1620.html

60 FPS at 4xAA, 8xAF, TRUE HD (1900x1200, not upscaled)



WilliamWatts on 18 January 2010
Procrastinato said:

Um.  I gotta agree with Xoj here.  I'll use pricewatch el-cheapo prices.

 

To put together a PC capable of running games of that quality, you'd need:

* a motherboard with a PCIe socket and modern multi-core CPU socket, as well as decent bus speed (you could probably get a reliable one for ~$70)

* A quality case, that cools okay. (~$20-40, depending on how many fans and what GPU you get)

* Sufficient cooling fans (~$10-$30)

* A power supply -- probably 500W-ish for the components needed (~$40)

* a multi-core CPU -- the Cell is faster than all but server-grade i7s, but you can probably get by with emulating a 360 Xenon with your PC instead (~$100)

* Memory -- probably 2GB, since the OS is such a hog on PCs. (~$120)

* a HDD -- a good 120GB is fine. (~$40 secondhand -- you can't really find 120GB drives anymore)

* A DVD or BD drive (~$40 for DVD)

* A Graphics card at least as good as the higher-end ATI HD 3000 series or NVidia 7800 GTX (~$80-$100 new). In the PS3's case, you'd need more horsepower than a 7800 GTX, because the Cell can assist the GPU on a separate bus.  On a 360 you'd need more than a 7800 GTX because the 360s GPU is faster than a 7800 GTX, plain and simple.

*  Possibly an audio card, if your MB doesn't support decent sound (we'll pretend your MB is good enough)

*  A network adapter, if your MB doesn't have (we'll say you are an awesome MB shopper, and it also has this)

* A wireless game controller, which ships in the console boxes, and is included in the console price as well.  We'll use a wired mouse + KB, since they are cheaper than controllers, usually, and PC gamers love to sit 2 feet or less from their tiny monitors, which we aren't including in this price comparison. (~$15 + $15 = $30)

 

Total (minimums, form above): 70 + 20 + 10 + 40 + 100 + 120 + 40 + 80 + 30 = $510

Kinda... not very close to $300.  Even if my minimums are off by a little, or you are an amazing eBay shopper, you're not going to be able to put together a PC even close to what a PS3 or 360 can do, games-wise, for the same price -- even today.

You contradict yourself a little at one step which is "the Cell is faster than all but server-grade i7s" vs "In the PS3's case, you'd need more horsepower than a 7800 GTX, because the Cell can assist the GPU on a separate bus" So no you don't need a CPU as fast as a server grade i7 because your GPU is taking up that slack. You double dipped a little there, but its ok.

Okie heres a basic build for a smart shopper using quality components, everything is 4.5-5 eggs:

Apevia X-Infinity $60 with 350W PSU


Raidmax Smilodon ATX with 500W PSU $90

Now depending on whether you want a more basic or more powerful build determines which level of case you want.

Gigabyte AM3 mATX board $90

5 star rating again and comes with onboard graphics and realtek sound so its about the best you can find for this price.

AMD Propus Athlon II X4 2.6 Ghz (~same transistor count as Cell) $99

AMD Phenon II X4 925 2.8GHz $140

HD 5670 512MB $99

HD 5750 1GB $140

Corsair 4GB $99

Western Digital Caviar Blue $55

OEM DVD Drive sata $18

Total $520 + tax/shipping (Not including rebates)

Total 2 $630 and same deal.

 

 

Windows tax: $105

Final total if Windows needed:

$625 + s/t

$735 + s/t

However the final result is > 2-3* overall performance along with 16* memory, 4* video ram, 4* HDD space, uses less power idle, and can be used for more than just games. So the price delta is justified by the performance difference.

Oh yeah and the above systems can play PS2 games emulated, can the PS3?

 

 



Procrastinato on 18 January 2010

I don't understand. You just confirmed that, for $300, the PS3 and 360 are steals. You also neglected a good $50-100 total of case, fans, keyboard, mouse, which is pretty significant at these prices. Since we're comparing them on a price basis for performance, why bother trying to put together a machine which is going to cost some $700-$800 (after you add the items I mentioned, which you ARE going to need) and claim "its better"?

You uh... spent more.  A LOT more.  Get it?



 

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gamefreak4ever on 18 January 2010

It makes complete sense to me.  The computer has to continue to change in order to perform at the same level.  How much as the computer change since the release of the PS3?



http://www.vgchartz.com/sigs/output.php?userid=60726%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D">

gamefreak4ever on 18 January 2010
Kriminology said:
Cell processor is a prodigy. Future adaptations will follow the same process within.

Exactly!



http://www.vgchartz.com/sigs/output.php?userid=60726%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D">

WilliamWatts on 19 January 2010
Procrastinato said:

I don't understand. You just confirmed that, for $300, the PS3 and 360 are steals. You also neglected a good $50-100 total of case, fans, keyboard, mouse, which is pretty significant at these prices. Since we're comparing them on a price basis for performance, why bother trying to put together a machine which is going to cost some $700-$800 (after you add the items I mentioned, which you ARE going to need) and claim "its better"?

You uh... spent more.  A LOT more.  Get it?

Because the performance and usefulness of a computer is much higher and therefore its worth it.



deskpro2k3 on 19 January 2010

ok kiddies. time to be schooled



CPU: Ryzen 9950X
GPU: MSI 4090 SUPRIM X 24G
Motherboard: MSI MEG X670E GODLIKE
RAM: CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM 32GB DDR5
SSD: Kingston FURY Renegade 4TB
Gaming Console: PLAYSTATION 5 Pro
Deneidez on 19 January 2010
gamefreak4ever said:
Kriminology said:
Cell processor is a prodigy. Future adaptations will follow the same process within.

Exactly!

http://www.destructoid.com/sony-moving-away-from-cell-processing-with-ps4--158813.phtml

Looks more like dead end than prodigy that will be remembered and used in the future. ;)

 

@thread

And wtf is this $300 for pc? Only pc you can get for $300 or under are those minilaptops and they aren't really capable of running games like desktop comps.

 

@procrastinato

Have a beer.



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