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Forums - Sony Discussion - Should Sony Abandon the PSP?, or You Can't Spell Ignorant without...

pastro243 on 12 January 2010
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
Come on people, FFVII or VIII on the DS is irrelevant, a guy just said he loved the psp because he could play those games in it, you could also say you could have gears on ps3 or shadow of the colossus on wii if the 360 and ps2 didnt exist, but they do.

He asserted PSP can do things and run games that DS fundamentally can't, which is totally true and completely legitimate.  He then pointed to FFVII & FFVIII, which could each easily be done on DS. :/

What's actually irrelevant is your useless 1st party software comparison there.


Then pick other games then, put random 360 game on ps3 or random ps2 game on wii, I dont really care.

Dharh said he could play FFVII and VIII on the PSP, and that made it better than the DS, which is his opinnion, then you said that IF the psp didnt exist(which it does) then maybe, seeing that those games could be possible on the DS, they would probably be ported to it.

Now, he responded with valid claims that he thought it was imposible and then people started to argue this which I think is irrelevant to the main discussion in this thread.

So, the argument started just because you mentioned that hypothetic case, and he said it was imposible only after you mentioned it, his first post doesnt indicate that he thinks that the DS fundamentally couldnt run them, just that those games are on psp and not on the ds.

So he thinks PSP is justified because it has games... which are perfectly doable on DS?  Do I really need to connect these dots for you?

The argument didn't start due to my hypothetical, it started because his valid point (PSP brings a unique handheld experience) was negated with invalid examples (FFVII/FFVIII).  I just pointed that out.

"My original point, really, was just that FFVII/FFVIII was on the PSP and thus made it superior  (I wasn't even thinking about PSP/PS1 being more capable than the DS, at the time)."

So its the simple fact that you can download them and play them and you cant do that with the DS, not that they were a unique experience or not possible on the DS.

Cool.  But that's not what he originally said.

"There are things the PSP does far better than the DS does. I can play FFVII and FFVIII on my PSP, that alone makes it better than the DS."

But you cant play them on the DS.



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noname2200 on 12 January 2010
dharh said:

It's mainly because I know the limitations of the DS. It's quite a interesting bit of engineering, but it was given strict limits on its capabilities (one wonders why though). The polygon count of the DS is not really impressive, also it has to deal with two screens, though you could limit the use of one of the screens and thus focus most of the processing power to only one of the screens.

The polygon capabilities of the PS1 are more powerful than DS, and the PSP is more powerful than the PS1. With the DSi on the other hand this is not necessarily the case. I dunno if the DSi is fundamentally more powerful than the PSP, given the limited info on it still, but it probably is. Fact remains though that we are talking about the DS and not really the DSi. 

Really though my original argument, again, was specifically about the purity of the original games, FMVs and all. Which again, again, would have to removed/changed/etc to work on the DS.

I see. I'll admit I have only a weak grasp on the technical side of things, so I'll defer to your statement. That said, if you're worried about FMVs, why would they need to be removed or modified in any way? Final Fantasy IV on the DS had lots of FMV, and the quality of its FMV was miles ahead of that of Final Fantasy VII or VIII.



jarrod on 12 January 2010
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
Come on people, FFVII or VIII on the DS is irrelevant, a guy just said he loved the psp because he could play those games in it, you could also say you could have gears on ps3 or shadow of the colossus on wii if the 360 and ps2 didnt exist, but they do.

He asserted PSP can do things and run games that DS fundamentally can't, which is totally true and completely legitimate.  He then pointed to FFVII & FFVIII, which could each easily be done on DS. :/

What's actually irrelevant is your useless 1st party software comparison there.


Then pick other games then, put random 360 game on ps3 or random ps2 game on wii, I dont really care.

Dharh said he could play FFVII and VIII on the PSP, and that made it better than the DS, which is his opinnion, then you said that IF the psp didnt exist(which it does) then maybe, seeing that those games could be possible on the DS, they would probably be ported to it.

Now, he responded with valid claims that he thought it was imposible and then people started to argue this which I think is irrelevant to the main discussion in this thread.

So, the argument started just because you mentioned that hypothetic case, and he said it was imposible only after you mentioned it, his first post doesnt indicate that he thinks that the DS fundamentally couldnt run them, just that those games are on psp and not on the ds.

So he thinks PSP is justified because it has games... which are perfectly doable on DS?  Do I really need to connect these dots for you?

The argument didn't start due to my hypothetical, it started because his valid point (PSP brings a unique handheld experience) was negated with invalid examples (FFVII/FFVIII).  I just pointed that out.

"My original point, really, was just that FFVII/FFVIII was on the PSP and thus made it superior  (I wasn't even thinking about PSP/PS1 being more capable than the DS, at the time)."

So its the simple fact that you can download them and play them and you cant do that with the DS, not that they were a unique experience or not possible on the DS.

Cool.  But that's not what he originally said.

"There are things the PSP does far better than the DS does. I can play FFVII and FFVIII on my PSP, that alone makes it better than the DS."

But you cant play them on the DS.

No you can't, which is why my response was "In fairness, DS is perfectly capable of running games like FFVII and FFVIII."



mike_intellivision on 12 January 2010

The PSP has done better than any non-Nintendo handheld.

The issue with it has always been software sales have not been what was expected. Explanations for this range from primary use as a media device to game piracy.

That being said, IGN makes a large leap of faith in its suppositions. Though it is nice to see that the website has become universally ignorant, not just where it relates to one particular company.

Mike from Morgantown




      


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Cheebee on 12 January 2010
dharh said:
Cheebee said:
dharh said:
I don't really believe in the same failure/win crap the everyone else seems to believe in. The DS can't be a failure at this point, nor really can the PSP be a failure. I was merely saying that when comparing the PS2 vs the DS, one should look at what each type of game device the two things are. Of course the DS sells faster than the PS2 did, its a portable device. The question i'm asking is, is it selling as fast a portable device _could_ or is lacking something that would make it sell 3 times faster than the PS2. By my logic the PSP certainly isn't matching the potential curve.

Or to put it simply, everyone else is all goo goo impressed about DS sales, i'm not. I'm merely more interested in how its doing, how will it be doing in the future, will it have a 10 year life span, etc. Also we should keep a keen eye on the difference between the DS and the DSi, which imo are two different devices.

Hmm, well, people's opinions differ, I guess. If you're not impressed by DS sales, then that's fine, but I'm quite sure you're about the only person on earth who thinks so.

Of course there's a difference between handhelds and consoles, but the difference not THAT significant. Imo, when a machine's topping the sales charts week after week, month after month and year after year it's really irrelevant to question whether it *could* sell more. Of course it could, if people had more money to spend, if there were even more quality games for it, if there wasn't an economic crisis, if babies could play it, if developers would start making games for the thing exclusively... But those are all irrelevant and nonsensical.

Are you also unimpressed by PS2's sales? 'Cos you should be, you should ask the same questions about that one, yes it's sold fine, but what would have to happen for it to sell 3 times as much? Could it? Could it top 300 million? Come on.

It's just a difference in interest. I guess I _should_ be impressed, but im too busy being interested in the statistics. So i'm not really impressed by PS2 sales, rather i'm interested in the PS2 sales curves as it relates to other consoles. For instance the trend PS3 has compared to PS2 and how the Wii is significantly higher, the PS3 flagging behind, and the X360 is even worse. It's just a difference in interest.

I know, doesn't really matter anyway.

But you're too analytic, haha!



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Hisiru on 12 January 2010

I really don't care about graphics or power on a handheld. The DS is my favorite system of this generation because of the unique games and support, it has 30 or more good games per year with a good variety. Unfortunately the PSP has a lot of untapped potential.

@dharh
As noname said, FFIV DS has FMVs with a much better quality than FFVII or FFVIII (I finished both games)



dharh on 12 January 2010
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:

So he thinks PSP is justified because it has games... which are perfectly doable on DS?  Do I really need to connect these dots for you?

The argument didn't start due to my hypothetical, it started because his valid point (PSP brings a unique handheld experience) was negated with invalid examples (FFVII/FFVIII).  I just pointed that out.

"My original point, really, was just that FFVII/FFVIII was on the PSP and thus made it superior  (I wasn't even thinking about PSP/PS1 being more capable than the DS, at the time)."

So its the simple fact that you can download them and play them and you cant do that with the DS, not that they were a unique experience or not possible on the DS.

To be fair to jarrod, I did argue with him on the technical points, even though those weren't the reasons why those games wouldn't work on the DS. The only technical point I brought up was the space limitations. There was a post by someone else the started the notion that DS couldn't actually render FFVII/FFVIII, to which I jumped into that discussion.

If you follow the posts, you'll note this changed when I posted 'I guess it depends on what you call a DS. The original DS (and DS Lite) would probably need quite a bit of re-engineering to run FFVII and more specifically FFVIII.'

To which we went on a tangent on actual polygon counts.

I think my points still stand though. The FMVs would have to be re-compressed, redone, whatever. Maybe even the assets would have to be re-compressed.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.
jarrod on 12 January 2010
dharh said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:

So he thinks PSP is justified because it has games... which are perfectly doable on DS?  Do I really need to connect these dots for you?

The argument didn't start due to my hypothetical, it started because his valid point (PSP brings a unique handheld experience) was negated with invalid examples (FFVII/FFVIII).  I just pointed that out.

"My original point, really, was just that FFVII/FFVIII was on the PSP and thus made it superior  (I wasn't even thinking about PSP/PS1 being more capable than the DS, at the time)."

So its the simple fact that you can download them and play them and you cant do that with the DS, not that they were a unique experience or not possible on the DS.

To be fair to jarrod, I did argue with him on the technical points, even though those weren't the reasons why those games wouldn't work on the DS. The only technical point I brought up was the space limitations. There was a post by someone else the started the notion that DS couldn't actually render FFVII/FFVIII, to which I jumped into that discussion.

If you follow the posts, you'll note this changed when I posted 'I guess it depends on what you call a DS. The original DS (and DS Lite) would probably need quite a bit of re-engineering to run FFVII and more specifically FFVIII.'

To which we went on a tangent on actual polygon counts.

I think my points still stand though. The FMVs would have to be re-compressed, redone, whatever. Maybe even the assets would have to be re-compressed.

I'd agree that FMVs and audio would need to use modern compression algorhythms (it wouldn't make sense not to), and the prerendered backgrounds could be compressed/refigured to better suit the new aspect ratio.  Those elements would appear basically identical though, figuring for the DS screen size, and other elements of the games (poly counts, texture quality, lighting/shading effects, pixel effects, etc) could be improved in the process.  I think each game could be comfortably done a 512MB card though, and maybe even squeezed into a 256MB card (though then you likely would be looking at some degree of "sacrifices").

It's hard as we don't have a FMV-heavy multidisc PS1 port to compare yet.   DQIV and RE1 were single disc, but both had their 3D elements improved in the PS to DS transition.  



pastro243 on 12 January 2010
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
Come on people, FFVII or VIII on the DS is irrelevant, a guy just said he loved the psp because he could play those games in it, you could also say you could have gears on ps3 or shadow of the colossus on wii if the 360 and ps2 didnt exist, but they do.

He asserted PSP can do things and run games that DS fundamentally can't, which is totally true and completely legitimate.  He then pointed to FFVII & FFVIII, which could each easily be done on DS. :/

What's actually irrelevant is your useless 1st party software comparison there.


Then pick other games then, put random 360 game on ps3 or random ps2 game on wii, I dont really care.

Dharh said he could play FFVII and VIII on the PSP, and that made it better than the DS, which is his opinnion, then you said that IF the psp didnt exist(which it does) then maybe, seeing that those games could be possible on the DS, they would probably be ported to it.

Now, he responded with valid claims that he thought it was imposible and then people started to argue this which I think is irrelevant to the main discussion in this thread.

So, the argument started just because you mentioned that hypothetic case, and he said it was imposible only after you mentioned it, his first post doesnt indicate that he thinks that the DS fundamentally couldnt run them, just that those games are on psp and not on the ds.

So he thinks PSP is justified because it has games... which are perfectly doable on DS?  Do I really need to connect these dots for you?

The argument didn't start due to my hypothetical, it started because his valid point (PSP brings a unique handheld experience) was negated with invalid examples (FFVII/FFVIII).  I just pointed that out.

"My original point, really, was just that FFVII/FFVIII was on the PSP and thus made it superior  (I wasn't even thinking about PSP/PS1 being more capable than the DS, at the time)."

So its the simple fact that you can download them and play them and you cant do that with the DS, not that they were a unique experience or not possible on the DS.

Cool.  But that's not what he originally said.

"There are things the PSP does far better than the DS does. I can play FFVII and FFVIII on my PSP, that alone makes it better than the DS."

But you cant play them on the DS.

No you can't, which is why my response was "In fairness, DS is perfectly capable of running games like FFVII and FFVIII."

And that is what started the useless debate.



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jarrod on 12 January 2010
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
jarrod said:
pastro243 said:
Come on people, FFVII or VIII on the DS is irrelevant, a guy just said he loved the psp because he could play those games in it, you could also say you could have gears on ps3 or shadow of the colossus on wii if the 360 and ps2 didnt exist, but they do.

He asserted PSP can do things and run games that DS fundamentally can't, which is totally true and completely legitimate.  He then pointed to FFVII & FFVIII, which could each easily be done on DS. :/

What's actually irrelevant is your useless 1st party software comparison there.


Then pick other games then, put random 360 game on ps3 or random ps2 game on wii, I dont really care.

Dharh said he could play FFVII and VIII on the PSP, and that made it better than the DS, which is his opinnion, then you said that IF the psp didnt exist(which it does) then maybe, seeing that those games could be possible on the DS, they would probably be ported to it.

Now, he responded with valid claims that he thought it was imposible and then people started to argue this which I think is irrelevant to the main discussion in this thread.

So, the argument started just because you mentioned that hypothetic case, and he said it was imposible only after you mentioned it, his first post doesnt indicate that he thinks that the DS fundamentally couldnt run them, just that those games are on psp and not on the ds.

So he thinks PSP is justified because it has games... which are perfectly doable on DS?  Do I really need to connect these dots for you?

The argument didn't start due to my hypothetical, it started because his valid point (PSP brings a unique handheld experience) was negated with invalid examples (FFVII/FFVIII).  I just pointed that out.

"My original point, really, was just that FFVII/FFVIII was on the PSP and thus made it superior  (I wasn't even thinking about PSP/PS1 being more capable than the DS, at the time)."

So its the simple fact that you can download them and play them and you cant do that with the DS, not that they were a unique experience or not possible on the DS.

Cool.  But that's not what he originally said.

"There are things the PSP does far better than the DS does. I can play FFVII and FFVIII on my PSP, that alone makes it better than the DS."

But you cant play them on the DS.

No you can't, which is why my response was "In fairness, DS is perfectly capable of running games like FFVII and FFVIII."

And that is what started the useless debate.

Which you're successfully dragging out and dredging up.  Congrats!