darthdevidem01 said: funny how in this & in the other negative FFXIII thread ALL the people who are playing it on VGChartz have said how awesome it is yet their comments were ignored by 99% of the posters in those threads

actually every issue that has brought up, I asked are Japanese players here and on PSN and all of them confirmed basically the previews are right.... its more on how the player feels is you loooove just story in JRPG's the FXIII is perfectly made for you since since the game structure is built around its story, but if you like GAME the part we actually play with tons of sidequest, optional dungeons, exploration, grinding ext... FFXIII "seems" to have left those behind which will disapoint ppl who like alittle meat on the bone.

NiKKoM said: SmokedHostage said: What I'm expecting most of the basic plot to be. "I love you, Serah." "I love you, Snow." -both kiss- Directed by Tetsuya Nomura You forgot the "the Laughing scene"!!!

both of you forgot Nomura doesn't have much to do with FFXIII

corrected for Versus XIII:

What I'm expecting most of the basic plot to be.

"I love you, Stella."

"I love you, Noctis."

-both kiss-

Directed by Tetsuya Nomura

selnor said: darthdevidem01 said: WOWOWOW AMAZING PREVIEW BTW why have you cherry picked the 1 very harsh negative comment? 2 reasons. 1. He is clearly a fan of the series, and not a newcomer drom FF10 onwards. 2. Most FF fans on forums who talk about all the FF's general opinion is FF plumitted into love stories and bad desig when 10 released. Final Fantasy picked up some new gamers in the PS2 days. Many who never played 1-9. This generation may well be pleased. But long running fans in general are growing weary about Final Fantasy games. Not only has poaaibly the best composer in VG history gone, but the man responsible for great stories is also no longer there. FF stories were massive before. FF3, FF4, FF6, FF7, FF8 ( I'm currently playing the remakes of FF3 and 4 on DS ) Now they seem to be heavy heavy love stories. Love was involved in previous FF's, but didnt overshadowed the character progression. Since 10 the direction has been heavily lop sided. It's clear that Hironobu clearly isnt involved anymore. Like I say to an FF fan who has played all of them, things dont add up. To a newcomer, they are easy to get into now. The gameplay is dumbed down, and the stories less 'Japanese' Complicated.

so right:

1. A fan of the FF series MUST not be a newcomer from FF10 onwards? who made this rule up?

2. We are talking about two of the biggest reviewers in Japan praising the game to the heavens (Famitsu & dengeki) & ofcourse many many players, not just "FF fans on forums"

Heavy Heavy loves stories huh? FF12 had a heavy love story? have you played FFXII....one complaint of many many FF fans had about it was there wasn't much of a true love story

after FFX , FF12 was the main one & it didnt didn't have aheavy love story, in fact neither does FFXIII just so you know

yes FFX had a good love story....so what if YOU thought it was bad

bad design choices in FFX? once again YOu think they were bad not the majority

Gameplay dumbed down? yes so the reports by most people saying FFXIII is one of the most difficult ones yet is a lie?

please research more about FFXIII & its impressions first selnor, you obviously latched onto the "OMG no sakaguchi, NO uematsu, FF crap since FFX, Lost Oddesy is a true FF cus it was made by sakaguchi" bandwagon

Xxain said: darthdevidem01 said: funny how in this & in the other negative FFXIII thread ALL the people who are playing it on VGChartz have said how awesome it is yet their comments were ignored by 99% of the posters in those threads actually every issue that has brought up, I asked are Japanese players here and on PSN and all of them confirmed basically the previews are right.... its more on how the player feels is you loooove just story in JRPG's the FXIII is perfectly made for you since since the game structure is built around its story, but if you like GAME the part we actually play with tons of sidequest, optional dungeons, exploration, grinding ext... FFXIII "seems" to have left those behind which will disapoint ppl who like alittle meat on the bone.

The gameplay has been universally praised, with the story characters & presentation its the main thing being praised universally

DO NOT worry about the part you "PLAY" xxain

Now onto sidequests & so on, there are 64 monster hunts, secret weapons & so on to get....limited mini games

not that much but definetely SOMETHING...its not as if those things aren't there

YES theres a level cap so you can't grind all you want, but tell me are we always going to be reching the level cap, many players I have read said they most of the time never reached level caps, so a possibility to grind is present

People are putting 40 - 60 hours into the main quest = more than I put into dragon age origins main quest play through

In conclusion its a meaty RPG, not as meaty as say a steak, but meaty enough, not as meaty as FF12, on the other hand a big complaint of FF12 which was the story & characters has been rectified & been improved to no ends

darthdevidem01 said: selnor said: darthdevidem01 said: WOWOWOW AMAZING PREVIEW BTW why have you cherry picked the 1 very harsh negative comment? 2 reasons. 1. He is clearly a fan of the series, and not a newcomer drom FF10 onwards. 2. Most FF fans on forums who talk about all the FF's general opinion is FF plumitted into love stories and bad desig when 10 released. Final Fantasy picked up some new gamers in the PS2 days. Many who never played 1-9. This generation may well be pleased. But long running fans in general are growing weary about Final Fantasy games. Not only has poaaibly the best composer in VG history gone, but the man responsible for great stories is also no longer there. FF stories were massive before. FF3, FF4, FF6, FF7, FF8 ( I'm currently playing the remakes of FF3 and 4 on DS ) Now they seem to be heavy heavy love stories. Love was involved in previous FF's, but didnt overshadowed the character progression. Since 10 the direction has been heavily lop sided. It's clear that Hironobu clearly isnt involved anymore. Like I say to an FF fan who has played all of them, things dont add up. To a newcomer, they are easy to get into now. The gameplay is dumbed down, and the stories less 'Japanese' Complicated. so right: 1. A fan of the FF series MUST not be a newcomer from FF10 onwards? who made this rule up? 2. We are talking about two of the biggest reviewers in Japan praising the game to the heavens (Famitsu & dengeki) & ofcourse many many players, not just "FF fans on forums" Heavy Heavy loves stories huh? FF12 had a heavy love story? have you played FFXII....one complaint of many many FF fans had about it was there wasn't much of a true love story after FFX , FF12 was the main one & it didnt didn't have aheavy love story, in fact neither does FFXIII just so you know yes FFX had a good love story....so what if YOU thought it was bad bad design choices in FFX? once again YOu think they were bad not the majority Gameplay dumbed down? yes so the reports by most people saying FFXIII is one of the most difficult ones yet is a lie? please research more about FFXIII & its impressions first selnor, you obviously latched onto the "OMG no sakaguchi, NO uematsu, FF crap since FFX, Lost Oddesy is a true FF cus it was made by sakaguchi" bandwagon

FF12 had love story but it didnt do anything with it. As for gameplay being dumbed down. Yes it is. For a start in FF13 there is absolutely no punishment for dying. You revert back to right before the battle you dies in and not your last save. That is dumbed down to the highest degree. And well most of the reports I have read say the combat is excruciatingly easy as is the game itself. Even heard reports of 30 hours to finish the game. Almost no bosses providing a challenge, and barely no grinding needed. That unfortunately is dumbed down. No exploration at all. Even 12 had exploration. That was 12's saving grace. I hope I enjoy it. But all the reports of missing gameplay, no overworld at all, no villages to stumble upon, no NPC's, no shops etc are all what made FF back in the day.

My following comment is not a console war one, but a JRPG saving one. I am thankful that Mistwalker exist. They have kept the traditional combat as well as fantastic storytelling. How much of that is down to Hironobu is up to you. But the fact that FF was entirely his creation in the beginning and almost every FF from 1 - 9 had him create the story and game design is quite big. It's like having someone else take over Star Wars and making another 3 of them. Look at what happened to Rare. All I'm saying is it's obvious when you play through FF10 or 12 that they are vastly different to previous FF's. Some people are fine with that. But  know loads that aren't. And m,any forums are full with long serving fans that aren't. Although they readily admit they still buy the next installment with hope. But it seems FF13 has taken an even further step away from it's roots. I would even say Lost Odyssey itself has more in common with the FF's of Snes and Ps1 days than FF10-13 does.

i don 't think any rpg or jrpg can be compared to final fantasy XIII
THOSE WHO PLAYED ALL Final Fantasies know what linear means

selnor said: darthdevidem01 said: FF12 had love story but it didnt do anything with it. As for gameplay being dumbed down. Yes it is. For a start in FF13 there is absolutely no punishment for dying. You revert back to right before the battle you dies in and not your last save. That is dumbed down to the highest degree. And well most of the reports I have read say the combat is excruciatingly easy as is the game itself. Even heard reports of 30 hours to finish the game. Almost no bosses providing a challenge, and barely no grinding needed. That unfortunately is dumbed down. No exploration at all. Even 12 had exploration. That was 12's saving grace. I hope I enjoy it. But all the reports of missing gameplay, no overworld at all, no villages to stumble upon, no NPC's, no shops etc are all what made FF back in the day. My following comment is not a console war one, but a JRPG saving one. I am thankful that Mistwalker exist. They have kept the traditional combat as well as fantastic storytelling. How much of that is down to Hironobu is up to you. But the fact that FF was entirely his creation in the beginning and almost every FF from 1 - 9 had him create the story and game design is quite big. It's like having someone else take over Star Wars and making another 3 of them. Look at what happened to Rare. All I'm saying is it's obvious when you play through FF10 or 12 that they are vastly different to previous FF's. Some people are fine with that. But  know loads that aren't. And m,any forums are full with long serving fans that aren't. Although they readily admit they still buy the next installment with hope. But it seems FF13 has taken an even further step away from it's roots. I would even say Lost Odyssey itself has more in common with the FF's of Snes and Ps1 days than FF10-13 does.

1. Yeah so what, you said FF's since 10 put HUGE focus on love story, yet they really haven't. FF4, , FF8, FF9 had more of a love story than FF12

2. Punishment for dying? no wait you actually ENJOYED wasting time going back to the main menu, clicking load game & load file, waiting to load & then seeing the LOOOOONG cut scene before the boss battles........oooookay. I DO NOT see this as dumbed down at all.

3. 30 hours to finish the game.....have you heard more reports from proffessional reviewers & many more gamers saying its very hard? Ok lets leave that, MGS4 can apprently be finished in 2 hours too. All I know is that challenge is in the end relative, many many more people said its hard than easy.

4. Exploration....hmmmmm....in story mode you always have to go from point A to point B....yes there is no world map, that is what makes it seem very linear. I do not mind there being no exploration, as apart from pokemon I haven't bothered to explore in JRPG's, I usually go & do what the story tells me to do, or in the case of FF7 back then I got lost. YES its a negative to some.

5. No villages & town......the story of the game doesn't allow you to sit 7 have a nice chat with people in random towns. The world of FFXIII doesn't have many towns at all, pulse from the "pre release info from square is inhabited".

no NPC's is a downright lie, there are NPC's

no shops.....everything is done through online things as cocoon is big on online shopping, its the future deal with it . But TBH this is the only aspect where I'll agree they probably "dumbed down" the game. But seriously having no shops is no dealbreaker at all & if people are whining about it the games gotta be amazing as "no shops" atleast in my eyes is no biggie

FF 1 - 10 were with sakaguchi. He was very much involved with FFX too.

And lost oddesy....yes it may have more in common with FF than FF12 & posibly FF10 did...but so what, thats why it got lower review scores, it was been there done that.

Times change, accept it, I welcome change with FFXIII

darthdevidem01 said: selnor said: darthdevidem01 said: FF12 had love story but it didnt do anything with it. As for gameplay being dumbed down. Yes it is. For a start in FF13 there is absolutely no punishment for dying. You revert back to right before the battle you dies in and not your last save. That is dumbed down to the highest degree. And well most of the reports I have read say the combat is excruciatingly easy as is the game itself. Even heard reports of 30 hours to finish the game. Almost no bosses providing a challenge, and barely no grinding needed. That unfortunately is dumbed down. No exploration at all. Even 12 had exploration. That was 12's saving grace. I hope I enjoy it. But all the reports of missing gameplay, no overworld at all, no villages to stumble upon, no NPC's, no shops etc are all what made FF back in the day. My following comment is not a console war one, but a JRPG saving one. I am thankful that Mistwalker exist. They have kept the traditional combat as well as fantastic storytelling. How much of that is down to Hironobu is up to you. But the fact that FF was entirely his creation in the beginning and almost every FF from 1 - 9 had him create the story and game design is quite big. It's like having someone else take over Star Wars and making another 3 of them. Look at what happened to Rare. All I'm saying is it's obvious when you play through FF10 or 12 that they are vastly different to previous FF's. Some people are fine with that. But  know loads that aren't. And m,any forums are full with long serving fans that aren't. Although they readily admit they still buy the next installment with hope. But it seems FF13 has taken an even further step away from it's roots. I would even say Lost Odyssey itself has more in common with the FF's of Snes and Ps1 days than FF10-13 does. 1. Yeah so what, you said FF's since 10 put HUGE focus on love story, yet they really haven't. FF4, , FF8, FF9 had more of a love story than FF12 2. Punishment for dying? no wait you actually ENJOYED wasting time going back to the main menu, clicking load game & load file, waiting to load & then seeing the LOOOOONG cut scene before the boss battles........oooookay. I DO NOT see this as dumbed down at all. 3. 30 hours to finish the game.....have you heard more reports from proffessional reviewers & many more gamers saying its very hard? Ok lets leave that, MGS4 can apprently be finished in 2 hours too. All I know is that challenge is in the end relative, many many more people said its hard than easy. 4. Exploration....hmmmmm....in story mode you always have to go from point A to point B....yes there is no world map, that is what makes it seem very linear. I do not mind there being no exploration, as apart from pokemon I haven't bothered to explore in JRPG's, I usually go & do what the story tells me to do, or in the case of FF7 back then I got lost. YES its a negative to some. 5. No villages & town......the story of the game doesn't allow you to sit 7 have a nice chat with people in random towns. The world of FFXIII doesn't have many towns at all, pulse from the "pre release info from square is inhabited". no NPC's is a downright lie, there are NPC's no shops.....everything is done through online things as cocoon is big on online shopping, its the future deal with it . But TBH this is the only aspect where I'll agree they probably "dumbed down" the game. But seriously having no shops is no dealbreaker at all & if people are whining about it the games gotta be amazing as "no shops" atleast in my eyes is no biggie FF 1 - 10 were with sakaguchi. He was very much involved with FFX too. And lost oddesy....yes it may have more in common with FF than FF12 & posibly FF10 did...but so what, thats why it got lower review scores, it was been there done that. Times change, accept it, I welcome change with FFXIII

The been there done that attitude is what is killing the JRPG. JRPG formula doesnt need to change. Turn based combat is it's forbiding trade mark, it has it's relative tatics that go with it. The formula isnt old, it's how it's used.

The punishment for dying again may have it's clause for sitting through a boss cutscene again, but what about when not at a boss? Sometimes you can play a JRPG for an hour not have a save point and all of a sudden hit some hard enemy. You are really trying tio stay alive. In FF13 you die and just get put right back before the fight. Whereas before your punishment for you not getting the tactics right was an hour of gaming gone.

Also how many times do I have to show that FF10 had as much input from Hironobu Sakaguchi as water does to start a fire.

Hironobu Sakaguchi was the original concept idea and story for all the following Final Fantasies:

FF1

FF2

FF4

FF5

FF6

FF7

FF9

He also was the origin of Parasite Eve. A fantastic game.

He had less involvment with Final Fantasy 3, but even so he was the Director for that game. He still had alot of input.

It's common knowledge that Hironobu took a back seat for Final Fantasy 8 and 10. He was merely Executive Producer on these games.

He had very little input in the way the game played and what them story was for these 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hironobu_Sakaguchi

selnor said: darthdevidem01 said: selnor said: darthdevidem01 said: FF12 had love story but it didnt do anything with it. As for gameplay being dumbed down. Yes it is. For a start in FF13 there is absolutely no punishment for dying. You revert back to right before the battle you dies in and not your last save. That is dumbed down to the highest degree. And well most of the reports I have read say the combat is excruciatingly easy as is the game itself. Even heard reports of 30 hours to finish the game. Almost no bosses providing a challenge, and barely no grinding needed. That unfortunately is dumbed down. No exploration at all. Even 12 had exploration. That was 12's saving grace. I hope I enjoy it. But all the reports of missing gameplay, no overworld at all, no villages to stumble upon, no NPC's, no shops etc are all what made FF back in the day. My following comment is not a console war one, but a JRPG saving one. I am thankful that Mistwalker exist. They have kept the traditional combat as well as fantastic storytelling. How much of that is down to Hironobu is up to you. But the fact that FF was entirely his creation in the beginning and almost every FF from 1 - 9 had him create the story and game design is quite big. It's like having someone else take over Star Wars and making another 3 of them. Look at what happened to Rare. All I'm saying is it's obvious when you play through FF10 or 12 that they are vastly different to previous FF's. Some people are fine with that. But  know loads that aren't. And m,any forums are full with long serving fans that aren't. Although they readily admit they still buy the next installment with hope. But it seems FF13 has taken an even further step away from it's roots. I would even say Lost Odyssey itself has more in common with the FF's of Snes and Ps1 days than FF10-13 does. 1. Yeah so what, you said FF's since 10 put HUGE focus on love story, yet they really haven't. FF4, , FF8, FF9 had more of a love story than FF12 2. Punishment for dying? no wait you actually ENJOYED wasting time going back to the main menu, clicking load game & load file, waiting to load & then seeing the LOOOOONG cut scene before the boss battles........oooookay. I DO NOT see this as dumbed down at all. 3. 30 hours to finish the game.....have you heard more reports from proffessional reviewers & many more gamers saying its very hard? Ok lets leave that, MGS4 can apprently be finished in 2 hours too. All I know is that challenge is in the end relative, many many more people said its hard than easy. 4. Exploration....hmmmmm....in story mode you always have to go from point A to point B....yes there is no world map, that is what makes it seem very linear. I do not mind there being no exploration, as apart from pokemon I haven't bothered to explore in JRPG's, I usually go & do what the story tells me to do, or in the case of FF7 back then I got lost. YES its a negative to some. 5. No villages & town......the story of the game doesn't allow you to sit 7 have a nice chat with people in random towns. The world of FFXIII doesn't have many towns at all, pulse from the "pre release info from square is inhabited". no NPC's is a downright lie, there are NPC's no shops.....everything is done through online things as cocoon is big on online shopping, its the future deal with it . But TBH this is the only aspect where I'll agree they probably "dumbed down" the game. But seriously having no shops is no dealbreaker at all & if people are whining about it the games gotta be amazing as "no shops" atleast in my eyes is no biggie FF 1 - 10 were with sakaguchi. He was very much involved with FFX too. And lost oddesy....yes it may have more in common with FF than FF12 & posibly FF10 did...but so what, thats why it got lower review scores, it was been there done that. Times change, accept it, I welcome change with FFXIII The been there done that attitude is what is killing the JRPG. JRPG formula doesnt need to change. Turn based combat is it's forbiding trade mark, it has it's relative tatics that go with it. The formula isnt old, it's how it's used. The punishment for dying again may have it's clause for sitting through a boss cutscene again, but what about when not at a boss? Sometimes you can play a JRPG for an hour not have a save point and all of a sudden hit some hard enemy. You are really trying tio stay alive. In FF13 you die and just get put right back before the fight. Whereas before your punishment for you not getting the tactics right was an hour of gaming gone. Also how many times do I have to show that FF10 had as much input from Hironobu Sakaguchi as water does to start a fire. Hironobu Sakaguchi was the original concept idea and story for all the following Final Fantasies: FF1 FF2 FF4 FF5 FF6 FF7 FF9 He also was the origin of Parasite Eve. A fantastic game. He had less involvment with Final Fantasy 3, but even so he was the Director for that game. He still had alot of input. It's common knowledge that Hironobu took a back seat for Final Fantasy 8 and 10. He was merely Executive Producer on these games. He had very little input in the way the game played and what them story was for these 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hironobu_Sakaguchi

yes he was executive producer, STILL involved with the project

& since when has FFX been panned for its story?

FFX is the 2nd most popular Final Fantasy right behind FF7 FYI

It had an amazing & emotional story with one of the best endings ever

The only Final Fantasy that has been criticized for  weak story by many many critics & fans is FF12...surprisingly from the FF tactics team that does great stories

_____

Onto dying:

"you are really trying to stay alive", & your not otherwise, if I'm near the end of a dungeon & I die on an enemy (not a boss) & restart the battle (in FFXIII) I will still TRY to kill it to progress in the game

I do not need a game over screen & a start from a save point 20 min away from the point where I died to "make me try to stay alive", thats just a nuisance & wastes my time, one of the things I WANTED FF to have was "saving at any point" like pokemon & WRPG's to avoid that, but instead they decided to let us replay battles, I'm fine with this solution

so from what ive read the game randomly selects a character for u to play at the start of every the battle, please tell me thats not true i hate playing characters i dont like ie the afro guy