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Forums - General Discussion - Ireland introduces new law which makes blasphemy a crime.

Kasz216 on 03 January 2010
mrstickball said:
stof said:
Kasz216 said:
stof said:
Kasz216 said:

So it's basically a hate crime law. Stupid, but not really out of the ordinary for Europe, except who in particular it protects.

Really "hate speech" laws should go in general.

That's not really a hate crime law, it's a blasphemy law. blasphemy and hate speech are very different. For Instance:

"The bible is full of ridiculous crap" - Blasphemy.

"Christians should be burned alive" - hate speech.

ridiculing a belief (or ridiculing an object of belief, as many followers of a religion may still blashpeme against it by criticizing their own god or church) is far different than inciting hatred towards a group of people.

 

Nah, not in all countries.  In a lot of countries hate speech if something as simple as "All jewish people are liers."

Saying "The bible is full of crap" would be like saying "All christians are idiots."

 

Either is holding an entire group of people in contempt.

um... I see a huge difference between criticizing an idea and insulting a person.

I don't think you understand what hate speech is, Stof:

Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality ...

(from google define: hate speech). It doesn't have to involve threats.

By that definition, they are very similar. The only difference is who they are protecting. Hate speech laws usually protect minorities from the majority, and blasphemy laws protect the majority from the minority. Both are dumb.

More or less what i'm getting at.  Though insulting someones faith also does tread on insulting someone.



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mrstickball on 03 January 2010
Kasz216 said:
mrstickball said:

I don't think you understand what hate speech is, Stof:

Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality ...

(from google define: hate speech). It doesn't have to involve threats.

By that definition, they are very similar. The only difference is who they are protecting. Hate speech laws usually protect minorities from the majority, and blasphemy laws protect the majority from the minority. Both are dumb.

More or less what i'm getting at.  Though insulting someones faith also does tread on insulting someone.

Right. It is the other side of the same coin - anti-blasphemy laws can be leveraged by religious leaders to curb secular thought, just like hate speech can be used to curb religious thought.

Either way, we need to have free, open, and honest discussions and debate about life choices and worldviews.



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stof on 03 January 2010
Kasz216 said:
mrstickball said:
stof said:
Kasz216 said:
stof said:

That's not really a hate crime law, it's a blasphemy law. blasphemy and hate speech are very different. For Instance:

"The bible is full of ridiculous crap" - Blasphemy.

"Christians should be burned alive" - hate speech.

ridiculing a belief (or ridiculing an object of belief, as many followers of a religion may still blashpeme against it by criticizing their own god or church) is far different than inciting hatred towards a group of people.

 

Nah, not in all countries.  In a lot of countries hate speech if something as simple as "All jewish people are liers."

Saying "The bible is full of crap" would be like saying "All christians are idiots."

 

Either is holding an entire group of people in contempt.

um... I see a huge difference between criticizing an idea and insulting a person.

I don't think you understand what hate speech is, Stof:

Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality ...

(from google define: hate speech). It doesn't have to involve threats.

By that definition, they are very similar. The only difference is who they are protecting. Hate speech laws usually protect minorities from the majority, and blasphemy laws protect the majority from the minority. Both are dumb.

More or less what i'm getting at.  Though insulting someones faith also does tread on insulting someone.

Yes, I misspoke in my original post about the nature of hate speech, as it is the intended degradation of a group, and not purely the inciting of hatred or violence towards them. But the point I was making was that criticizing or insulting a religion is different than criticizing or insulting a group of people. 

Hate speech laws protect people, as opposed to blasphemy laws that protect religions.

People are people, religions are not, which is why hate speech laws are arguably beneficial (I'd argue yes, Kasz would argue no), where as a blasphemy law is downright head in ass attrocious by just about any measure.

 



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Kasz216 on 03 January 2010
stof said:
Kasz216 said:
mrstickball said:
stof said:
Kasz216 said:
stof said:

That's not really a hate crime law, it's a blasphemy law. blasphemy and hate speech are very different. For Instance:

"The bible is full of ridiculous crap" - Blasphemy.

"Christians should be burned alive" - hate speech.

ridiculing a belief (or ridiculing an object of belief, as many followers of a religion may still blashpeme against it by criticizing their own god or church) is far different than inciting hatred towards a group of people.

 

Nah, not in all countries.  In a lot of countries hate speech if something as simple as "All jewish people are liers."

Saying "The bible is full of crap" would be like saying "All christians are idiots."

 

Either is holding an entire group of people in contempt.

um... I see a huge difference between criticizing an idea and insulting a person.

I don't think you understand what hate speech is, Stof:

Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality ...

(from google define: hate speech). It doesn't have to involve threats.

By that definition, they are very similar. The only difference is who they are protecting. Hate speech laws usually protect minorities from the majority, and blasphemy laws protect the majority from the minority. Both are dumb.

More or less what i'm getting at.  Though insulting someones faith also does tread on insulting someone.

Yes, I misspoke in my original post about the nature of hate speech, as it is the intended degradation of a group, and not purely the inciting of hatred or violence towards them. But the point I was making was that criticizing or insulting a religion is different than criticizing or insulting a group of people. 

Hate speech laws protect people, as opposed to blasphemy laws that protect religions.

People are people, religions are not, which is why hate speech laws are arguably beneficial (I'd argue yes, Kasz would argue no), where as a blasphemy law is downright head in ass attrocious by just about any measure.

 

Hate speech laws do not protect people.  They protect a GROUP of people.

As do this law.  Uneeded protection, but protection none the less.

Insulting a religion really is no different then insulting an ethnic group at it's base.  Since an insult against either is one that effects all its members.



vlad321 on 03 January 2010

The funniest part about this is that I got invited to a Steam Group called "Praise Jebus" as I was reading the article.

 

OT:

I always put the difference between a hate speechspeech and just good ol' bashing of ideas at something tangible. A person cannot (at least not easily) change his skin color, hair color, or just about anything physiccal and genetic. However ideas are different. They can be changed and therefore I would not put bashing of an idea as a hate speech.



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bdbdbd on 04 January 2010

Hate speech and blasphemy share a common ground, but whereas hate speech virtually has a victim, blasphemy does not. Blasphemy only protects an ideology.
Hate speech would be damning all christians, while blasphemy would be calling bible a book of fairytales.



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FootballFan on 04 January 2010

Jesus Christ!


Sorry. I couldn't help myself on this one. Catholics are always going to have a stronger religion than Protestants. To start with its not watered down and altered by the great man(pig) himself Henry the 8th!!!!!



zuvuyeay on 04 January 2010
Gnac said:

I suppose this means "Father Ted" is now at risk from a ban in its country of origin?


channel 4 actually made and paid for father ted,and interiors were filmed in london

obviously an irish show though and very funny

 



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allaboutthegames885 on 04 January 2010
FootballFan said:
Jesus Christ!


Sorry. I couldn't help myself on this one. Catholics are always going to have a stronger religion than Protestants. To start with its not watered down and altered by the great man(pig) himself Henry the 8th!!!!!

Reported! I don't have the heart to do it, really... But, I'm still not sure what this adds to the conversation.

OT: Yeah, this whole thing seems pretty messed up to me... GO ATHEISTS!



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Chairman-Mao on 04 January 2010

That's a good law. If that was in North America a lot of people would be a out a lot of money.