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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 720p Versus 1080p HDTVs. The Facts

I have a 46 inches TV and it is 1080p, and all the content looks better in 1080 than 720...Weird



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flowjo said:
umm whoever posted this im gonna ask you something and you dont have to answer if you dont want to

1.do you abuse drugs on a daily basis??

2.is the drug problem the sole cause of the retarded logic?


thanks

HAHAHAHA lol



I guess a lot of people care about graphics lol. I'm serious we are at a point in history where picture quality can't get much better than it is now. Regardless on what HDTV you have the picture will be the same, and your watching the same media but for some reason people are touting 1080p being the best of the best.

I guess someone should make a thread about which system is has the best graphics in HD then.

I watch Blu-rays fine in 720p on my 20" and I play my PS3 and 360 in 720p and still think its better than 1080p. Maybe its because my HDTV is 20" and I don't have the 43"+ bragging rights.

Sent via BlackBerry



^As various others have explained, you have to factor in 3 parameters: the screen size, the watching distance and the resolution. Only from those 3 you get the apparent angular size of the single pixel, which is the absolute parameter that can be compared to your eye optical resolution.

In other words, it's perfectly possible that 720p an 1080p look completely identical to you on a 20" screen, depending on the distance. On the other hand, saying that 720p looks better than 1080p makes little sense, unless your screen is simply downscaling the 1080p to a lower native resolution and is not very good at that :)



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

xlost4 said:
I guess a lot of people care about graphics lol. I'm serious we are at a point in history where picture quality can't get much better than it is now. Regardless on what HDTV you have the picture will be the same, and your watching the same media but for some reason people are touting 1080p being the best of the best.

I guess someone should make a thread about which system is has the best graphics in HD then.

I watch Blu-rays fine in 720p on my 20" and I play my PS3 and 360 in 720p and still think its better than 1080p. Maybe its because my HDTV is 20" and I don't have the 43"+ bragging rights.

Sent via BlackBerry

You really think picture quality isn't going to get better?  What, ever?  Like not even in twenty years.

Why would you think 720p is better than 1080p?  720p is fine, but it's clearly not better than 1080p by any form of empirical judgement, why would you honestly think it's better?



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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So now we are trying to bring the console wars mentality to TV's. Don't worry about what other people tell you. As someone said, decide on your budget, forget the hype, go to the shop and try out a few of the TV's in your price range with different sources, decide which one looks best to your eyes and be happy with that. 

People talk about 720p this and 1080p that, viewing distances, 20/20 vision blah blah blah. I can't locate the paper at the moment but there is research to suggest that when subjectively judging TVs in a blind fashion, resolution is only about the 4th most important factor in judging image quality, with colour, contrast and (something else) all having a greater impact on people's perception of image quality.

Don't buy into the hype, a crap TV that can do 1080p is still going to be a crap TV.



@reasonable

Obiviously I'm stating my opinion from a 20" HDTV owner perspective. Because honestly I don't care about picture quality. If I put or anyone puts a 24" 1080p (and there are some out there) against a 24" 720p do you honestly think a average consumer would care less and not see a difference. Because I did just that at Best Buy the other day and I couldn't find a slight difference, unless your a tech junkie.

Picture quality for me is fine, even DVDs are fine for me and to this day I still by DVDs over Blu-rays because having a sharp picture means nothing to me. Aa long as it plays the movie and the picture is fine, I'm sold.

@hsrob

I totally agree and understand your perspective.

My opinion so don't take it personally

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greenmedic88 said:
JamesCizuz said:
nordlead said:
Pock3R said:
Barozi said:
Andysw said:

Yes and no. The xbox 360 has a fancy upscaling function that upscales games to 1080p. It can not output native 1080p.

http://kotaku.com/201816/shane-kim-talks-360-1080p-game-output

Virtua Tennis 3 runs in native 1080p.

It's not possible to get native 1080p from a DVD....we wouldn't need bluray if we could

 

ok well i didnt read the article really....so what they are saying is the game was made on a hd disc for that old hd drive add on?? that article is tl;dr

 

now this is just complete garbage. 1080p has nothing to do with the medium it is stored on (DVD, Blu-Ray, HDD, USB Stick). Anyone who is posting any kind of information should know that.

That is true and false actually. Medium does matter with 320, 480, 720, and 1080 and higher resolution. Not due to the size of the medium but the size of the files. VCD, DVD, BD could all play ANY of those resolutions, but certain criteria have to be met. A 1080 signal requires a bitrate of atleast 72 Mbps(Mega Bits per second). Blu-ray has a bit rate of 36 Mbps, while a DVD has a bit rate of 10.5 Mbps, and CD of 1.2 Mbps.

Mbps = Mega bits per second.
MBps = Mega bytes per second(8 mega bites is a mega byte)
These are all at times 1 drives.

Now if 1080 content is 72 Mbps, that means you would need a 2x blueray drive, a 7x DVD drive, and a 60x CD drive.

Now most DVD players do have a 8x drive standard now, but when they first came out they were 2x, as 480 content was only between the 12-18 Mbps area. CD drive standard now is 52x. So older DVD players could not even stream the content, newer ones can.... Or can they?

Not only does the drive have to be a certain speed, but also has to be able to decode the information, PS3 could handle it, 360 could handle it, but what other devices could? Some BD players yeah, but you are still using a BD player. It has to do with how much power it takes to stream it as well. Some DVD players can get 720 content, but not 1080 native and some DVD players can upscale. Now the last problem comes down to storage. Now 1 second of 1080 content is 9 MEGABYTES. Now the 72 Mbps is a requirement, due to different ways it's stored and compressed etc, 72 Mbps is uncompressed fully audio/video. Now actual content for 1080 depending on how it's stored and what format it's in is between 30-50 Mbps, 50 being peak and 30 being low end. So many factors are in place it's rediculous.

Now sure, you can store 1080 content on a DVD, and CD, but you need a way to decode, stream, speed, and it's hugely limited by space. A DVD would hold around maybe 20 minutes of 1080 content in the way blu-ray standard format is, and a CD, around 4 minutes. You can say dual layer DVDs, great, 40 minutes, but now we have the problem that when you make more layers on a DVD the read speed is slower, while on a Blu-ray, no speed is lost with extra layers(till you hit 32 layers).

So yes you are right, the actual format could work on any medium HOWEVER wrong because of limitations.

You're going to make me burn a DVD to test this, but I'm pretty sure if I burn a 1920x1080 QT movie trailer to DVD, I'll still be able to get a normal frame rate if I play it off the DVD drive of any current computer.

On the second thought; no need. Unless I could burn a 1920x1080 movie file with lower compression in the range of 30-50Mbps+ bandwidth, I know it would play off DVD for example (1080p trailers online generally run around 10Mbps which for a 3:30m clip is about 256MB or about 14 minutes of video per GB of storage).

So it's not the resolution at all that anyone should be debating, only the bit rate. Lower bit rate, higher compression 1920x1080 signal will play back just fine on DVD. Is the quality the same as a 40Mbps AVC compressed A/V signal on BD? Of course not; nobody said that. But the point was a 1920x1080p signal can be stored (and played back) on just about any storage media, assuming the data bit rate doesn't exceed the format/drive.

Technically, Nord's right on the money.

Burn a DVD, and buy an old 2x DVD drive, and run it on your computer. No matter what, you are having huge frame drops. Any computer you say? Current computer, theres the key word there. Not every DVD player is current, though I guess you can argue those old DVD players don't even have HD outputs, however older drives for computers thats a null point. Also, lower bit-rate = higher compress = more powerful hardware to decompress and stream.



JamesCizuz said:
greenmedic88 said:

You're going to make me burn a DVD to test this, but I'm pretty sure if I burn a 1920x1080 QT movie trailer to DVD, I'll still be able to get a normal frame rate if I play it off the DVD drive of any current computer.

On the second thought; no need. Unless I could burn a 1920x1080 movie file with lower compression in the range of 30-50Mbps+ bandwidth, I know it would play off DVD for example (1080p trailers online generally run around 10Mbps which for a 3:30m clip is about 256MB or about 14 minutes of video per GB of storage).

So it's not the resolution at all that anyone should be debating, only the bit rate. Lower bit rate, higher compression 1920x1080 signal will play back just fine on DVD. Is the quality the same as a 40Mbps AVC compressed A/V signal on BD? Of course not; nobody said that. But the point was a 1920x1080p signal can be stored (and played back) on just about any storage media, assuming the data bit rate doesn't exceed the format/drive.

Technically, Nord's right on the money.

Burn a DVD, and buy an old 2x DVD drive, and run it on your computer. No matter what, you are having huge frame drops. Any computer you say? Current computer, theres the key word there. Not every DVD player is current, though I guess you can argue those old DVD players don't even have HD outputs, however older drives for computers thats a null point. Also, lower bit-rate = higher compress = more powerful hardware to decompress and stream.

but again, none of that matters when it comes to my statement that medium doesn't matter for storing 1080p video (or showing it), as it is possible. Sure, none of it is reasonablely feasible, but nothing is stopping anyone from doing it. I can say that watching 1080p on a Blu-ray drive is impossible on a SDTV, but all I'm doing is artificially restricting hardware just like you are. Obviously if people were going to make HD capable DVD drives, they would make sure the bitrate and processor power was high enough to handle the video.




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xlost4 said:
@reasonable

Obiviously I'm stating my opinion from a 20" HDTV owner perspective. Because honestly I don't care about picture quality. If I put or anyone puts a 24" 1080p (and there are some out there) against a 24" 720p do you honestly think a average consumer would care less and not see a difference. Because I did just that at Best Buy the other day and I couldn't find a slight difference, unless your a tech junkie.

Picture quality for me is fine, even DVDs are fine for me and to this day I still by DVDs over Blu-rays because having a sharp picture means nothing to me. Aa long as it plays the movie and the picture is fine, I'm sold.

@hsrob

I totally agree and understand your perspective.

My opinion so don't take it personally

Sent via BlackBerry

 

Oh I can understand that.  I buy for my budget and room size, not to have the biggest!  I was just somewhat taken aback at your statement that we'd reached the end of picture quality and that the picture quality is better on the smaller TV - which you still have actually explained! 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...