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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft computer accessories and Windows mobile are both struggling.

@Mrstickball: Thanks for the info about Android marketplace. I knew Android has standard features, but never thought marketplace would be one.

The reason why Nokia accounts so much for Symbian sales, is because Nokia sells so many phones with Symbian. At the moment Symbian is the most common mobile phone OS in the market.
And the reason why other Symbian manufacturers are looking elsewhere, is because of getting beaten by Nokia in terms of competing with Symbian phones. If someone is beating others with Android and it doesn't provide the results they wanted, the manufacturers look elsewhere again.
The strength Symbian has at the moment is, that it has a strong supporter behind it.

At the same time the mobile phone games market is growing, the handheld gaming market is growing too, if i'm not mistaken. The growth of mobile phone gaming is irrelevant in the context, if it doesn't happen at the expense of handheld systems.

Despite the similarities of the systems, in the end it turns to what kind of games are available and game specific devices have the advantage of being designed for the games on the system, while smartphones has to be designed to perform multiple tasks. You can make a games phone like the N-Gage, but outside of it not being good with games to begin with, it was horrible in other aspects.

I wouldn't call it shrinking, if a company isn't losing in sales. Though, it's not growing either.



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Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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mrstickball said:

Sir, you are very, very wrong. Its not Engaget, it is analyst firms that track smartphone OS penetration. Symbian has lost marketshare for quite some time, and so has Nokia.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10728_Gartner_Q3_2009_Smartphone_Sal.php

Nokia dropped from 42.3% in Q3 of 2008 to 39.3% in 2009. That is from Gartner which is the largest, best, and most accurate firm concerning handset penetration.



And here is another thing from the same article you linked to: 


WinMo 6.5 has some pretty nifty features including a marketplace. Just bought myself an awesome RPG that came out 2 days ago called Zenonia. Been hiding in the bathroom at work for short gaming breaks.

I think the main problem with WinMo phones is the bloated crap software that carriers may add in along with the phone manufacturers putting another OS on top of the WinMo OS. It slows the phone down considerably.

When hardware comes out that can handle the OS along with the crapware, then I would be happy. Never the less, I put up with it. Nothing beats a mini PC in your pocket. Apps and all that crap, I don't care much for. I can get programs that will work with the files I want. Fansub anime on the go, love it.







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bdbdbd said:
@Mrstickball: Thanks for the info about Android marketplace. I knew Android has standard features, but never thought marketplace would be one.

Android market place is a pretty interesting thing. It shares the most similarities with the iTunes distribution network that the iPhone uses, as it tends to leverage more software to more phones.

One note is that the individual carriers *do* have their own content distribution systems, but it is always inside the Android market. For example, when you click on the Android market on a T-Mobile phone (like mine), it comes up with 3 areas - Apps, Games, and T-Mobile products. The T-Mo products are carrier-specific, but the rest of the market is leveraged and acts like it always has (the T-Mo products area is very new, maybe 5 days old). Other carriers will do the same shortly, which may help leverage more product sales as they want to promote earnings of their apps, too.

The reason why Nokia accounts so much for Symbian sales, is because Nokia sells so many phones with Symbian. At the moment Symbian is the most common mobile phone OS in the market.
And the reason why other Symbian manufacturers are looking elsewhere, is because of getting beaten by Nokia in terms of competing with Symbian phones. If someone is beating others with Android and it doesn't provide the results they wanted, the manufacturers look elsewhere again.
The strength Symbian has at the moment is, that it has a strong supporter behind it.

I agree that Nokia using Symbian is very important to both Nokia's smartphone ambitions, as well as Symbian's OS proliferation. But on the same end, I wonder if it will be beneficial to Symbian as a market leader, because the other handset makers are going elsewhere like Android. If it comes to the point it is everyone vs. Nokia and Symbian, I will pick everyone as I think Nokia's marketshare will eventually erode over time as other handset makers improve their offerings.

At the same time the mobile phone games market is growing, the handheld gaming market is growing too, if i'm not mistaken. The growth of mobile phone gaming is irrelevant in the context, if it doesn't happen at the expense of handheld systems.

Yes, the handheld market is growing as well. However, mobile gaming's growth is outstripping handheld console growth. If that trend continues, then we may see cannibalization of handheld gaming. My whole argument is that, eventually, handheld gaming will go fully digital distribution, and leverage mobile carriers to provide bandwidth. I could invision a future where Nintendo and Sony leverage their products on more platforms as a means to break out into larger sales. God only knows what'd happen if Nintendo offered a virtual console for Symbian, Android, iTunes or BlackBerries.....Could you imagine an install base of 500 million people possibly buying a Mario game?

Despite the similarities of the systems, in the end it turns to what kind of games are available and game specific devices have the advantage of being designed for the games on the system, while smartphones has to be designed to perform multiple tasks. You can make a games phone like the N-Gage, but outside of it not being good with games to begin with, it was horrible in other aspects.

As the hardware improves on the phones, I think that we'll see pretty decent gaming uses for the phones. Although the phone does require system resources for other tasks (calls, ect), developers could easily require the handset to turn off resources to other applications - for example, I can turn off everything but games on my Android phone via an Airplane mode for single player games, which allows for much more optimized gaming.

And as time goes on, we'll see exactly what kind of games do get made for the phones. So far, a decent amount of the content has been made by smaller developers. But as word spread that the phones could make big money, larger devs are taking a crack at development. We'll start to see what kind of content can be made for cells. But I imagine that, given what some phones are capable of, we'll see some great games. Heck, Rockstar is doing a Grand Theft Auto for the iPhone.

I wouldn't call it shrinking, if a company isn't losing in sales. Though, it's not growing either.

If the entire market is growing, then its market share is shrinking. For example, Nokia (as per Gartner) shipped slightly more phones, while the market grew by about 7%. That would mean that its market share decreased.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

@mrstickball: The carrier marketplace is the same as Ovi is having in its "update". But what i meant was that the marketplace wouldn't be the same for every phone manufacturer, only the interface would be.

I wasn't meaning optimising as how system resources are split. In a situation where mobile phones would be bought instead of handhelds, the games have to run while other normal functions are running - firewall, antivirus, being ready to receive calls and stuff like that. The point in playing games with a phone is lost when you need to turn the "phone" off.
The point was, that because the phone has multiple functions, it has to be designed so that all the functions are pleasant to use. As i already used N-Gage as an example, the N-Gage users were one-eared Dumbos. That's pretty obvious flaw in the system design.

I'm really doubting Nintendo and Sony going third party. That sounds like Apple starting to licence Mac and iPhone OS to hardware manufacturers. Nintendo is on track to hit the half of the 500M with its current hardware (handheld and home), but they're getting royalties for 3rd party sales on the systems aswell.

Anyway, what we do agree is, that Windows Mobile is having some rough times ahead and mobile phones games market keeps growing to being quite big.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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MDMAniac said:

mrstickball said:

Sir, you are very, very wrong. Its not Engaget, it is analyst firms that track smartphone OS penetration. Symbian has lost marketshare for quite some time, and so has Nokia.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10728_Gartner_Q3_2009_Smartphone_Sal.php

Nokia dropped from 42.3% in Q3 of 2008 to 39.3% in 2009. That is from Gartner which is the largest, best, and most accurate firm concerning handset penetration.



And here is another thing from the same article you linked to: 

u found it!, see, they grow 6% last quarter, thanks to strong n97 5800 sales =)

engadget it's pretty biased though last quarter nokia reported a lost of millions and they said it was their phones division wasn't profitable,

but the lost was from  siemens division thats bleeding money, but nokia phone division was very profit able even with the economy crisis



Marketshare is indeed important but it doesn't necessarily relate to the biggest profit.

The earlier posted chart showed Sony dominating marketshare of home consoles but no where near Nintendo in profit.

Same with phones, RIM and Apple between hold 2-3% of all phones sold yet between them account for almost 45% of all profits made from the industry. 20% to apple.

Should Apple and RIM move up to a tiny 5% marketshare they will make more profit than nokia even if nokia had 50%.

Someone mentioned MS cracked the gaming industry with the xbox so why not the phone industry.

The phone industry is not a three horse race. There are a hell of a lot of major players out there.

The rumoured zune phone? If it is running WM7 then what's the point. MS will be competing with companies already lincensed to use their windows software and with a lot more experience in the industry. What can the zune phone bring that a samsung\LG windows windows phone can't?

Damn near any phone manufacturer can buy the rights for windows mobile.
MS releasing a phone is similar to them releasing a laptop to compete with dell and HP.

RIM and Apple phone software runs only on RIM or Apple devices.

I like android but I won an iphone 3gs and the apps is what gives it the edge over everything else out there, if you are into that kind of thing.




what do you expect its windows, people are smarting up.



Good. MS needs to stop trying to throw its weight around in order to corner more markets. Frankly, they run a dirty business and it's a benefit to know that they can't succeed with the same old FUD strategy they stole from IBM in fields outside of operating systems.



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heruamon said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Win Mobile, there are too many things MS does wrong, it's bloated, yet MS puts artificial limits on every OS it does that it sells for less than the current Windows desktop version, fearing that they could cannibalize it if the devices using them become powerful enough to become desktop or notebook replacements, just look at XP for netbooks. Then there is the "look 'n' cheat" factor, Win Mobile has a Windows look, but it can't run Windows apps and even file format interoperability is neither complete nor totally bidirectional, when people know it they think, why bother? Then there is the issue of MS constantly chasing more glamourous competitors, unavoidably looking nerdy and "me too", these are deadly sins in a fashion driven market like the cellphone one.
Add the instability that plagued a lot of versions, tainting the brand. Add that HW producers don't wish that MS gets on their rich market the power it has on the PC one. Add that even people tolerating slowness and bloating on PC's don't tolerate them on cellphones.
There's enough for disaster, and I'm sure I'm still forgetting something.

About keyboards, they had a lot of fans, the only slip I can remember is when MS released one with function keys redefined to have MS SW specific functions as main and their standard ones as secondary, almost everybody, reviewers included, found it insane.

After Windows 7...I'm hopeful for Windows Mobile 7...since I expect to get apps for my Zune HD then.

I guess that if you basically like it, you won't be disappointed, MS wants to keep its foot in that market and competition is hard, so it will have to deliver.



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