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Forums - Sales Discussion - Does the Wii prove that the HD razor/blade model is flawed?

MaxwellGT2000 on 28 December 2009
raygun said:

 

bdbdbd said:
@raygun: Wii has easilly 18 games i want to buy. That's to add to the more than 18 games i already own for it.

You know, you may not notice but you just pointed out the stupidity in Sonys strategy. Since you obviously want to watch BD; if PS3 didn't have BD player in it, you had bought a BD player to go with your 16 BD:s. Now Sony sold you a BD player they made loss with, instead of selling a standalone player that had been sold at a profit. Sounds like they lost money twice with selling you the PS3.

Stupidity??? You forget Sony was in a battle with Microsofts HD video format. Who knows, maybe the PS3s had a major part to play in blu-rays win, at one time I remember reading that 75% of the blu-ray players 'in the wild' were PS3s. Imagine if the PS3 didn't have blu-ray, would HDvideo have won the war? Then Sony would have really been in trouble. But they were smart and stuck a blu drive in their PS3 to help it win the format war.  So now with every blu-ray sold Sony makes a profit. Simple. And yet you call that stupid strategy?? And they haven't lost twice, jezzus! I have bought 18 games so far, and Sony wouldn't have gotten those sales if I bought a stand alone player, RIGHT?? Also, as far as attachment rates are concerned, the fact that some people bought a PS3 solely as a blu-ray player because it was the best player available brings down the 'attachment rate'. Yet they fail to factor in the profit from blu-ray video sales sold to people who just own a PS3, like me. Shouldn't blu-ray VIDEOS be counted as SOFTWARE sales in PS3's case?? What would that do to the 'attachment rate'? LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE MY FRIENDS, THERE WAS NO FLAW IN THEIR STRATEGY!

The billions of losses seem to say otherwise... 



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

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Grimes on 28 December 2009
theprof00 said:
jarrod said:
bdbdbd said:
@Maxwell: I have been pointing it out for a few years. I also made a topic about Sony not being able to drop the price of PS3 until BD players drop in price.

PS3 did affect on BD winning over the HD-DVD, so in the sense it likely did pay off in the long run. Although, we are talking about billions of discs sold and maybe even hundreds of millions of players sold, before money starts to come in (depending on how the royalties are split). But, what eventually lead to BD winning over HD-DVD was the studios choosing the platform.

Sony had to split BD royalties so many ways in order to bring other companies in, I have to question if it's even worth the sacrifice of the PlayStation business in the long run (physical media's days are numbered anyway).  They're not collecting the highest percentage of royalties even, Matsushitsa (Panasonic) is iirc.

Usually those royalties only last for a certain number of years. Is there an up to date list of what each gets? (Not asking you to post one, just asking if you think there may be one.)

Last time I checked, the blu-ray royalties were 11 cents per disc. I'm sure the BDA takes a big cut for administration and promotion. Whatever is left is probably divided amongst the various BDA companies. So maybe Sony makes a penny for each disc in blu-ray royalties.



Anyone can guess. It takes no effort to throw out lots of predictions and have some of them be correct. You are not and wiser or better for having your guesses be right. Even a blind man can hit the bullseye.

Xoj on 28 December 2009
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Xoj said:
RolStoppable said:
It really cracks me up everytime I see someone post that Nintendo doesn't care for its core audience right after they released the game of the generation.

uncharted 2? O.o.

@johnlucas

 sony only had ps2 and some ps1 sales when the gamecube hit.

nintendo had Gameboy color, gameboy advance, gamecube and software sales for all platforms for profits.

and with all that nintendo made almost the same as the ps2.

LOL no... no no... NO... obviously you didn't even click the link I provided the first time so here it is again.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=57802

Please read it

                          Sony               Nintendo       

PS1/N64

1996         -$93,491,480          $752,481,940 (PS1 launches in 1995, Sony invests a lot to start up a gaming division)

1997         $508,270,950         $579,934,080

GBC 

1998         $954,197,760         $1,042,464,480 (GBC launches and pokemon starts hitting its stride)

1999         $1,073,609,660      $1,228,994,940  

PS2

2000         $693,184,350         $1,306,720,300  (PS2 launches, digs into the profits Ps1 made earlier that year) 

GC/GBA

2001         -$463,129,080        $767,354,820    (GC and the GBA launch, GC didn't take off as well as Nintendo had hoped)

2002         $664,149,150         $954,399,510

2003         $924,881,130         $821,985,200      (the one year Sony brings in more than Nintendo)

DS/PSP

2004         $599,416,860         $955,148,210     (DS and PSP launch, PSP sold at a loss as well, hoping their UMD format would take off and   become used by multiple forms of media)

2005         $402,344,400         $1,039,385,040

PS3/Wii

2006         $77,419,800           $799,588,650    (PS3 and Wii launch late in the year and PS3 almost destroys all the money PS2 raked in for the year)

2007         -$1,988,702,000     $1,934,765,440

2008         -$1,092,978,300     $4,277,791,600

2009         -$584,760,000        $5,552,630,000 

 

The numbers speak for themselves....

thats only Sony gaming? Because sony used to make much money than that.

and nintendo make more money but the GBA WAS 80 million selling handheld aand pokemon was all the rage.

and nintendo still had Gb color pokemons sales.

nintendo made money but it wasn't because of the gamecube.

 



jarrod on 28 December 2009
Xoj said:

nintendo made money but it wasn't because of the gamecube.

 

GameCube itself didn't lose money, it actually made money.  The console was only sold at a slight loss (under $20) twice: during launch in fall 2001 and during the $99 drop in spring 2003.  Considering it was more capable than PS2, yet launched at $100 less, that's quite an achievement.

 

On topic, I don't think the razor/blades model has been proven outdated by Wii, but rather the tech arms race has.  You can still have a generational spec increase without breaking the bank having a gigantic loss leader, GameCube was good example of that.  Efficiency and familiarity is the future, not the tech envelope's bleeding edge.



MaxwellGT2000 on 28 December 2009
Xoj said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Xoj said:
RolStoppable said:
It really cracks me up everytime I see someone post that Nintendo doesn't care for its core audience right after they released the game of the generation.

uncharted 2? O.o.

@johnlucas

 sony only had ps2 and some ps1 sales when the gamecube hit.

nintendo had Gameboy color, gameboy advance, gamecube and software sales for all platforms for profits.

and with all that nintendo made almost the same as the ps2.

LOL no... no no... NO... obviously you didn't even click the link I provided the first time so here it is again.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=57802

Please read it

                          Sony               Nintendo       

PS1/N64

1996         -$93,491,480          $752,481,940 (PS1 launches in 1995, Sony invests a lot to start up a gaming division)

1997         $508,270,950         $579,934,080

GBC 

1998         $954,197,760         $1,042,464,480 (GBC launches and pokemon starts hitting its stride)

1999         $1,073,609,660      $1,228,994,940  

PS2

2000         $693,184,350         $1,306,720,300  (PS2 launches, digs into the profits Ps1 made earlier that year) 

GC/GBA

2001         -$463,129,080        $767,354,820    (GC and the GBA launch, GC didn't take off as well as Nintendo had hoped)

2002         $664,149,150         $954,399,510

2003         $924,881,130         $821,985,200      (the one year Sony brings in more than Nintendo)

DS/PSP

2004         $599,416,860         $955,148,210     (DS and PSP launch, PSP sold at a loss as well, hoping their UMD format would take off and   become used by multiple forms of media)

2005         $402,344,400         $1,039,385,040

PS3/Wii

2006         $77,419,800           $799,588,650    (PS3 and Wii launch late in the year and PS3 almost destroys all the money PS2 raked in for the year)

2007         -$1,988,702,000     $1,934,765,440

2008         -$1,092,978,300     $4,277,791,600

2009         -$584,760,000        $5,552,630,000 

 

The numbers speak for themselves....

thats only Sony gaming? Because sony used to make much money than that.

and nintendo make more money but the GBA WAS 80 million selling handheld aand pokemon was all the rage.

and nintendo still had Gb color pokemons sales.

nintendo made money but it wasn't because of the gamecube.

 

Ok this is just getting old, are you just going to keep making baseless claims with no facts or figures to back your point?  I linked you the thread, in the thread is linked the sources, if you've got a problem with the sales then take it up with Sony that released them, then come back when you actually have some sort of basis for your claim that the gamecube didn't make them money because right now you've got none and you're just saying "I'm right because I'm right" which is why we have a content rule... >_>



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

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MaxwellGT2000 on 28 December 2009
jarrod said:
Xoj said:

nintendo made money but it wasn't because of the gamecube.

 

GameCube itself didn't lose money, it actually made money.  The console was only sold at a slight loss (under $20) twice: during launch in fall 2001 and during the $99 drop in spring 2003.  Considering it was more capable than PS2, yet launched at $100 less, that's quite an achievement.

 

On topic, I don't think the razor/blades model has been proven outdated by Wii, but rather the tech arms race has.  You can still have a generational spec increase without breaking the bank having a gigantic loss leader, GameCube was good example of that.  Efficiency and familiarity is the future, not the tech envelope's bleeding edge.

A great point, something I have pointed out since I can remember getting into console/business discussions.  Sega and Nintendo have always used that idea, good tech, at the right price, coming out at the right time, Sega trying to do the same model as Sony helped them go under, Nintendo stayed their course and held through the N64 and GC eras.  Sony and MS really need to do more with R&D, find ways to be efficient, low cost tech with the best graphical results and it'll help both them and consumers, since more research helps prevent things like RRoD, E74, DRE, etc. along with the business benefits.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Squilliam on 28 December 2009
MaxwellGT2000 said:

So I'm not saying Blu-ray was the smart move cause it might not pay off until next gen which may be a gamble but if the next Xbox and new Nintendo console start using blu-ray discs that could be good for Sony, if HD DVD had won all investments into blu-ray for Sony would have been a loss.  Personally I think Sony should have kept the PS3 with just DVD tech made a cheaper console, made blu-ray players really in demand by bringing a lot of studios over to make movies for it and beating HD-DVD without having to drag the PS3 into it.  Then save Blu-ray tech for next gen when games will need it more, plus the tech becomes better so they can load faster without installs.

Thanks, I deleted the stuff I wasn't going to respond to in order to keep the thread tidier.

The question of which medium they use is still definately up in the air. They don't have to use all of the Blu Ray spec for their game discs to keep licensing costs down or to give them a disc which gives them better properties for what they want to use them for. Say for example they could use a higher density disc with a smaller form factor like the GC disc which was a subset of DVD to give them a better form factor for content distribution and to package their console smaller as an example. In that case the patents may only apply to one or two of the subsidiaries of the BR alliance and therefore they can cut their own deal in regards to royalties. As it stands its up in the air how they will distribute their content and one of the lessons learnt from the Wii is that a smaller form factor yields multiple benefits.



Tease.

Xoj on 28 December 2009
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Xoj said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Xoj said:
RolStoppable said:
It really cracks me up everytime I see someone post that Nintendo doesn't care for its core audience right after they released the game of the generation.

uncharted 2? O.o.

@johnlucas

 sony only had ps2 and some ps1 sales when the gamecube hit.

nintendo had Gameboy color, gameboy advance, gamecube and software sales for all platforms for profits.

and with all that nintendo made almost the same as the ps2.

LOL no... no no... NO... obviously you didn't even click the link I provided the first time so here it is again.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=57802

Please read it

                          Sony               Nintendo       

PS1/N64

1996         -$93,491,480          $752,481,940 (PS1 launches in 1995, Sony invests a lot to start up a gaming division)

1997         $508,270,950         $579,934,080

GBC 

1998         $954,197,760         $1,042,464,480 (GBC launches and pokemon starts hitting its stride)

1999         $1,073,609,660      $1,228,994,940  

PS2

2000         $693,184,350         $1,306,720,300  (PS2 launches, digs into the profits Ps1 made earlier that year) 

GC/GBA

2001         -$463,129,080        $767,354,820    (GC and the GBA launch, GC didn't take off as well as Nintendo had hoped)

2002         $664,149,150         $954,399,510

2003         $924,881,130         $821,985,200      (the one year Sony brings in more than Nintendo)

DS/PSP

2004         $599,416,860         $955,148,210     (DS and PSP launch, PSP sold at a loss as well, hoping their UMD format would take off and   become used by multiple forms of media)

2005         $402,344,400         $1,039,385,040

PS3/Wii

2006         $77,419,800           $799,588,650    (PS3 and Wii launch late in the year and PS3 almost destroys all the money PS2 raked in for the year)

2007         -$1,988,702,000     $1,934,765,440

2008         -$1,092,978,300     $4,277,791,600

2009         -$584,760,000        $5,552,630,000 

 

The numbers speak for themselves....

thats only Sony gaming? Because sony used to make much money than that.

and nintendo make more money but the GBA WAS 80 million selling handheld aand pokemon was all the rage.

and nintendo still had Gb color pokemons sales.

nintendo made money but it wasn't because of the gamecube.

 

Ok this is just getting old, are you just going to keep making baseless claims with no facts or figures to back your point?  I linked you the thread, in the thread is linked the sources, if you've got a problem with the sales then take it up with Sony that released them, then come back when you actually have some sort of basis for your claim that the gamecube didn't make them money because right now you've got none and you're just saying "I'm right because I'm right" which is why we have a content rule... >_>

well you clearly misread, my claim is the GAMECUBE alone didn't make same money as the PS2.

especially since the ps2 still  selling now, with huge profits, and u won't see that in those numbers because both sony and nintendo have other things mixed in.

but it's certain ps2 made more money than the gamecube.

 



MaxwellGT2000 on 28 December 2009
Xoj said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Xoj said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Xoj said:
RolStoppable said:
It really cracks me up everytime I see someone post that Nintendo doesn't care for its core audience right after they released the game of the generation.

uncharted 2? O.o.

@johnlucas

 sony only had ps2 and some ps1 sales when the gamecube hit.

nintendo had Gameboy color, gameboy advance, gamecube and software sales for all platforms for profits.

and with all that nintendo made almost the same as the ps2.

LOL no... no no... NO... obviously you didn't even click the link I provided the first time so here it is again.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=57802

Please read it

                          Sony               Nintendo       

PS1/N64

1996         -$93,491,480          $752,481,940 (PS1 launches in 1995, Sony invests a lot to start up a gaming division)

1997         $508,270,950         $579,934,080

GBC 

1998         $954,197,760         $1,042,464,480 (GBC launches and pokemon starts hitting its stride)

1999         $1,073,609,660      $1,228,994,940  

PS2

2000         $693,184,350         $1,306,720,300  (PS2 launches, digs into the profits Ps1 made earlier that year) 

GC/GBA

2001         -$463,129,080        $767,354,820    (GC and the GBA launch, GC didn't take off as well as Nintendo had hoped)

2002         $664,149,150         $954,399,510

2003         $924,881,130         $821,985,200      (the one year Sony brings in more than Nintendo)

DS/PSP

2004         $599,416,860         $955,148,210     (DS and PSP launch, PSP sold at a loss as well, hoping their UMD format would take off and   become used by multiple forms of media)

2005         $402,344,400         $1,039,385,040

PS3/Wii

2006         $77,419,800           $799,588,650    (PS3 and Wii launch late in the year and PS3 almost destroys all the money PS2 raked in for the year)

2007         -$1,988,702,000     $1,934,765,440

2008         -$1,092,978,300     $4,277,791,600

2009         -$584,760,000        $5,552,630,000 

 

The numbers speak for themselves....

thats only Sony gaming? Because sony used to make much money than that.

and nintendo make more money but the GBA WAS 80 million selling handheld aand pokemon was all the rage.

and nintendo still had Gb color pokemons sales.

nintendo made money but it wasn't because of the gamecube.

 

Ok this is just getting old, are you just going to keep making baseless claims with no facts or figures to back your point?  I linked you the thread, in the thread is linked the sources, if you've got a problem with the sales then take it up with Sony that released them, then come back when you actually have some sort of basis for your claim that the gamecube didn't make them money because right now you've got none and you're just saying "I'm right because I'm right" which is why we have a content rule... >_>

well you clearly misread, my claim is the GAMECUBE alone didn't make same money as the PS2.

especially since the ps2 still  selling now, with huge profits, and u won't see that in those numbers because both sony and nintendo have other things mixed in.

but it's certain ps2 made more money than the gamecube.

 

Which isn't what you said at all, since you said things like "nintendo made money but it wasn't because of the gamecube." and "with all that nintendo made almost the same as the ps2." which may or may not be true since Gamecube had some of the best selling titles of last gen and most of which were made by Nintendo which means they brought in more money from that title, so they not only made money on the console but games as well, even then Sony had other things involved skewing things like PS1 still selling and selling software into the PS2's life and just like you said PS2 selling into PS3's life helping out those losses.

Now if you're going to settle on that point than saying things like Gamecube not bringing in that much in profit, then yes PS2 likely did bring in more profits than GC alone, the only issue the only facts to prove one way or the other is collective data, and that proves the point of this thread that a business model that doesn't sell at a loss is a better way to go, since MS still hasn't made a profit on their game division and the PS3 has almost eaten away at the entirety of the PS brand, but if they had went with the sell hardware for a profit model, they wouldn't be in that bind, period.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Xoj on 28 December 2009
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Xoj said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Xoj said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Xoj said:
RolStoppable said:
It really cracks me up everytime I see someone post that Nintendo doesn't care for its core audience right after they released the game of the generation.

uncharted 2? O.o.

@johnlucas

 sony only had ps2 and some ps1 sales when the gamecube hit.

nintendo had Gameboy color, gameboy advance, gamecube and software sales for all platforms for profits.

and with all that nintendo made almost the same as the ps2.

LOL no... no no... NO... obviously you didn't even click the link I provided the first time so here it is again.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=57802

Please read it

                          Sony               Nintendo       

PS1/N64

1996         -$93,491,480          $752,481,940 (PS1 launches in 1995, Sony invests a lot to start up a gaming division)

1997         $508,270,950         $579,934,080

GBC 

1998         $954,197,760         $1,042,464,480 (GBC launches and pokemon starts hitting its stride)

1999         $1,073,609,660      $1,228,994,940  

PS2

2000         $693,184,350         $1,306,720,300  (PS2 launches, digs into the profits Ps1 made earlier that year) 

GC/GBA

2001         -$463,129,080        $767,354,820    (GC and the GBA launch, GC didn't take off as well as Nintendo had hoped)

2002         $664,149,150         $954,399,510

2003         $924,881,130         $821,985,200      (the one year Sony brings in more than Nintendo)

DS/PSP

2004         $599,416,860         $955,148,210     (DS and PSP launch, PSP sold at a loss as well, hoping their UMD format would take off and   become used by multiple forms of media)

2005         $402,344,400         $1,039,385,040

PS3/Wii

2006         $77,419,800           $799,588,650    (PS3 and Wii launch late in the year and PS3 almost destroys all the money PS2 raked in for the year)

2007         -$1,988,702,000     $1,934,765,440

2008         -$1,092,978,300     $4,277,791,600

2009         -$584,760,000        $5,552,630,000 

 

The numbers speak for themselves....

thats only Sony gaming? Because sony used to make much money than that.

and nintendo make more money but the GBA WAS 80 million selling handheld aand pokemon was all the rage.

and nintendo still had Gb color pokemons sales.

nintendo made money but it wasn't because of the gamecube.

 

Ok this is just getting old, are you just going to keep making baseless claims with no facts or figures to back your point?  I linked you the thread, in the thread is linked the sources, if you've got a problem with the sales then take it up with Sony that released them, then come back when you actually have some sort of basis for your claim that the gamecube didn't make them money because right now you've got none and you're just saying "I'm right because I'm right" which is why we have a content rule... >_>

well you clearly misread, my claim is the GAMECUBE alone didn't make same money as the PS2.

especially since the ps2 still  selling now, with huge profits, and u won't see that in those numbers because both sony and nintendo have other things mixed in.

but it's certain ps2 made more money than the gamecube.

 

Which isn't what you said at all, since you said things like "nintendo made money but it wasn't because of the gamecube." and "with all that nintendo made almost the same as the ps2." which may or may not be true since Gamecube had some of the best selling titles of last gen and most of which were made by Nintendo which means they brought in more money from that title, so they not only made money on the console but games as well, even then Sony had other things involved skewing things like PS1 still selling and selling software into the PS2's life and just like you said PS2 selling into PS3's life helping out those losses.

Now if you're going to settle on that point than saying things like Gamecube not bringing in that much in profit, then yes PS2 likely did bring in more profits than GC alone, the only issue the only facts to prove one way or the other is collective data, and that proves the point of this thread that a business model that doesn't sell at a loss is a better way to go, since MS still hasn't made a profit on their game division and the PS3 has almost eaten away at the entirety of the PS brand, but if they had went with the sell hardware for a profit model, they wouldn't be in that bind, period.

only the gamecube, then i said they make money of the gamecube+gba+GC+software sale, the gamecube was sold at 99$ last years.

but profits of the gamecube alone weren't as big of the ps2.

sony did it well with the ps1,ps2, and this time they decided to over engineer the console, big mistake, from the profits , but awesome of the engineering stand point.