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Forums - Sales Discussion - Sony may have a profitability problem from falling PS3 software sales.

justinian on 26 December 2009
BoneyBoy said:
justinian said:
This guy is a one trick pony.

Shovel through his recent posts and most of them in some way mentions Sony's "profit", regardless of the topic.
He tries to get this in every chance he gets, until he eventually stars a thread about it.

PS3 is trouncing his beloved and with no other angle of attack he resorts to their financial situation, as if no other company in the world is suffering from the recession.

A company (Sony) whose economic resources are up 230billion in 2009 which is 3x bigger than Microsoft (77billion)
can cope better than most.

Sayyyyyyyyyy what??  You are joking right??? 

Total resources do not mean anything.  Net profit, debt, and cash on hand are the details that indicate company viability.  Sony has no net profit, microsoft has 3.5 billion $$ in net profit every 3 months and between 13-16 billion net profit each year.    Sony has 11 billion of debt.  Microsoft has NEVER had to borrow money, never reported a loss, and has never had any debt.  Microsoft has 30 billion in cash reserves.

Comparing sony's financial viability with microsoft is preposterous and grossly unfair.  Even when sony's financials were good they were still only making 1 billion net profit per year.  Sony is forcasting a net loss for its second consecutive year of 1 billion dollars. 

To make a long story short, microsoft makes more money 3 months than sony makes in 3years

Total resources don't mean anything? I wouldn't even bother with that.

My point was that Sony has wide and varied resources to pull through this bad financial slump that they have been in for a few years.

The recession doesn't help.

My comparison with MS was not unfounded. That MS makes far more profit than most companies is not news.

It's just that some seem to think sony is some third-rate company that's about to disappear of the map. That this is not the case is what I wanted to get across.

One more point.

At least I take the time to make sure my figures are correct.

Your statement about in a good year sony makes $1bn was, with all due respect, pulled from where the sun doesn't shine.

In the quarter of october-december 2004 sony made $875m profit. That was in ONE quarter.

in the same quarter of 2008 Sony profits dropped 95% to $116m from the same time quarter of 2007. Do the maths.

How the hell does that work out that a good year is 1bn profit when sony a few years ago was almost doing that in a quarter?

And another point.

You said that it is "grossly unfair" to compare the finances of MS and Sony but that didn't stop you from making a damn good show doing just that.

 

 

 

 

 



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BoneyBoy on 26 December 2009

Just because sony profited in 1 quarter doesn't mean they wouldn't take losses in previous or successive quarters. Especially since the 3 month holiday season accounts for most of the profit in a year. It was not unreasonable to assume they would barely make 1 billion in profit for the whole year in the past.

Sony has a lot of debt as well and its credit rating was lowered a few months back which means it will cost them more to borrow money in the form of higher interest rates.

Go back and look at sony's financial reports. The yearly net profit is between1-2 billion per year at MOST. Sony has very thin margins on the products they sell. They usually have 80 billion in gross revenue for a quarter but net profit is extremely low.



BoneyBoy on 26 December 2009
MAFKKA said:
BoneyBoy said:
justinian said:
This guy is a one trick pony.

Shovel through his recent posts and most of them in some way mentions Sony's "profit", regardless of the topic.
He tries to get this in every chance he gets, until he eventually stars a thread about it.

PS3 is trouncing his beloved and with no other angle of attack he resorts to their financial situation, as if no other company in the world is suffering from the recession.

A company (Sony) whose economic resources are up 230billion in 2009 which is 3x bigger than Microsoft (77billion)
can cope better than most.

Sayyyyyyyyyy what??  You are joking right??? 

Total resources do not mean anything.  Net profit, debt, and cash on hand are the details that indicate company viability.  Sony has no net profit, microsoft has 3.5 billion $$ in net profit every 3 months and between 13-16 billion net profit each year.    Sony has 11 billion of debt.  Microsoft has NEVER had to borrow money, never reported a loss, and has never had any debt.  Microsoft has 30 billion in cash reserves.

Comparing sony's financial viability with microsoft is preposterous and grossly unfair.  Even when sony's financials were good they were still only making 1 billion net profit per year.  Sony is forcasting a net loss for its second consecutive year of 1 billion dollars. 

To make a long story short, microsoft makes more money 3 months than sony makes in 3years

Haven't MS ended up in the red for 8 straight years, and only last year started to make a profit? And aren't they still about 8billion in the red? How does that translate into 3.5 billion in net profit every 3 months? I might be reading it wrong, so please do link me your source.. im refering to this:: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=57802

Completely wrong.  Microsoft has recorded a profit for 2 straight years in their XBOX 360 DIVISION.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/20346/Xbox-Division-Records-Second-Profitable-Year-in-a-Row/



mario64 on 26 December 2009

Another day, another "PS3 is doomed" stealth trolling thread by Squilliam. I'm sure he wrote a similar thread when Xbox 1 lost billions for MS or when his beloved 360 was crushed in worldwide sales last week or every week since the slim was released.

Er, wait, no, he didn't write those threads.

2006 called, Squilliam, he wants his thread back.



BoneyBoy on 26 December 2009
wholikeswood said:
BoneyBoy seems to be talking about profitability and financial health of Microsoft as a whole, rather than the Entertainment and Devices Division (EDD, containing Games and Mobile, etc).

That's his confusion.

Hmmmmmm....not sure who the confused one is, but I imagine Sony CEO Howard Stringer is the most confused.  Because ever since 2007 the sony games division has been a bottomless money pit for sony. 

In fact, despite the high selling ps2 and psp, the games division for sony hasn't had 1 profitable year.  4 consecutive years of debt growth is all sony has to show for itself.  All those product lines in the games division and the greatness of the ps2 couldn't overcome the massive and crushing amount of debt caused by the ps3.

http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/2009/10/30/i-wish-i-had-4-7-billion-dollars-to-lose/

Quite amazing when you think about it.



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justinian on 26 December 2009
BoneyBoy said:
Just because sony profited in 1 quarter doesn't mean they wouldn't take losses in previous or successive quarters. Especially since the 3 month holiday season accounts for most of the profit in a year. It was not unreasonable to assume they would barely make 1 billion in profit for the whole year in the past.

Sony has a lot of debt as well and its credit rating was lowered a few months back which means it will cost them more to borrow money in the form of higher interest rates.

Go back and look at sony's financial reports. The yearly net profit is between1-2 billion per year at MOST. Sony has very thin margins on the products they sell. They usually have 80 billion in gross revenue for a quarter but net profit is extremely low.

Wow. First in a good year it was 1bn now it's 1-2bn.

Sony is more than hard products. In the 90's sony had some of the biggest movies and albums out that pushed profits

around the $2bn mark.

In 1998 sony made $1.7bn profit april-september, that's nothing to do with the holidays.

The economic downturn in asia was the start of sonys woos.

Anyway, enough of this.

 

 



heruamon on 26 December 2009

This thread is getting riddiculous...why do some of you people try to post financial data, when you haven't the fainted idea wtf you are talking about? Sony a more financially sound company than Microsoft...lol....are you high on crack? M$ makes more profit in a year than Sony has made in the last 6-7 years...a REALLY great year for Sony is a REALLY bad quarter for M$.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

mario64 on 26 December 2009

@heruamon : yet MS lost billions in Xbox 1 fiasco and RROD... MS is not that successful since everybody now is talking about firing Steve Ballmer.

It's killed by Apple with its Zune, it's killed by Google on the net, and now even 360 sales are behind its more expensive competitor, and Vista failed too...

In recent years, MS is hardly a successful company.



STEKSTAV on 26 December 2009
BoneyBoy said:
MAFKKA said:
BoneyBoy said:
justinian said:
This guy is a one trick pony.

Shovel through his recent posts and most of them in some way mentions Sony's "profit", regardless of the topic.
He tries to get this in every chance he gets, until he eventually stars a thread about it.

PS3 is trouncing his beloved and with no other angle of attack he resorts to their financial situation, as if no other company in the world is suffering from the recession.

A company (Sony) whose economic resources are up 230billion in 2009 which is 3x bigger than Microsoft (77billion)
can cope better than most.

Sayyyyyyyyyy what??  You are joking right??? 

Total resources do not mean anything.  Net profit, debt, and cash on hand are the details that indicate company viability.  Sony has no net profit, microsoft has 3.5 billion $$ in net profit every 3 months and between 13-16 billion net profit each year.    Sony has 11 billion of debt.  Microsoft has NEVER had to borrow money, never reported a loss, and has never had any debt.  Microsoft has 30 billion in cash reserves.

Comparing sony's financial viability with microsoft is preposterous and grossly unfair.  Even when sony's financials were good they were still only making 1 billion net profit per year.  Sony is forcasting a net loss for its second consecutive year of 1 billion dollars. 

To make a long story short, microsoft makes more money 3 months than sony makes in 3years

Haven't MS ended up in the red for 8 straight years, and only last year started to make a profit? And aren't they still about 8billion in the red? How does that translate into 3.5 billion in net profit every 3 months? I might be reading it wrong, so please do link me your source.. im refering to this:: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=57802

Completely wrong.  Microsoft has recorded a profit for 2 straight years in their XBOX 360 DIVISION.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/20346/Xbox-Division-Records-Second-Profitable-Year-in-a-Row/

Funny :D If you read the part after your highlight :D So what he says is correct.. 8 straight years of red.. last year made a profit, and this year aswell. So you two are saying the exact same thing, so how can he be "completely wrong" when you claim the exact same thing. Wouldn't that make you "completely wrong" aswell? Lolz.



welshbloke on 26 December 2009

It is fair to say that the current Sony stragedy carries a large amount of risk. This heady mix of selling a console at a losss, the exchange rate and the need for the gap to be filled by software is a risky one.
I would not say I was confident but I still believe (Sony fanbase trademark pending) that they will pull this off.



W.L.B.B. Member, Portsmouth Branch.

(Welsh(Folk) Living Beyond Borders)

Winner of the 2010 VGC Holiday sales prediction thread with an Average 1.6% accuracy rating. I am indeed awesome.

Kinect as seen by PS3 owners ...if you can pick at it   ...post it ... Did I mention the 360 was black and Shinny? Keeping Sigs obscure since 2007, Passed by the Sig police 5July10.