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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Games don't need stories.

loves2splooge on 27 December 2009
Reasonable said:
loves2splooge said:

Flower, Sun and Rain absolutely needed story because without it, it had zero value. The gameplay was awful. That is an example of story not being able to save a game with poor gameplay. Yes it has merit but is it enjoyable? No. Games are supposed to be enjoyable. I enjoyed reading someone's analytical essay on the game more than playing the actual game. I don't think it's fair to force the end-user to go through 10 hours (or however long it was) of crappy gameplay just to communicate a message to them. I don't care how much e-cred I lose by saying that Suda51 can't hide behind artistic merit as an excuse for poor gameplay design. Games are supposed to be fun. Otherwise, don't waste our time. Flower, Sun and Rain would have made a great essay, light novel, anime or movie. The video game medium isn't suited for it. Suda51 would fit right in at the Sundance movie festival.

I'd say the general consensus from gamers and critics is the gameplay in Flower was anything but awful.  The game may not have appealed to you personally, but the game mechanics worked fine and I certainly found it fun to play - in fact I still do and will re-play levels just for the fun they give me.

Flower, Sun and Rain scored 54 in metacritic. The general consensus hasn't been positive. Among critics and gamers who don't drink the Suda 51 kool-aid (not to say his other works aren't good but he does have a really cult-like fanbase that berates anyone that doesn't think his work is gold), FSR had been widely criticized for its gameplay. Among major reviewers, IGN gave it 5.5 (gameplay was rated 5.0) and Gamespot gave it 6.0. They praised the game for its story and arthouse direction (which I stated are the big positives with the game) but also criticized the game for the following reasons (all of which deal with gameplay):

  • Awful camera  
  • Vague directions make some puzzles a chore  
  • Constant backtracking on foot is annoying.

 



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Final-Fan on 28 December 2009
loves2splooge said:
Reasonable said:
loves2splooge said:

Flower, Sun and Rain absolutely needed story because without it, it had zero value. The gameplay was awful. That is an example of story not being able to save a game with poor gameplay. Yes it has merit but is it enjoyable? No. Games are supposed to be enjoyable. I enjoyed reading someone's analytical essay on the game more than playing the actual game. I don't think it's fair to force the end-user to go through 10 hours (or however long it was) of crappy gameplay just to communicate a message to them. I don't care how much e-cred I lose by saying that Suda51 can't hide behind artistic merit as an excuse for poor gameplay design. Games are supposed to be fun. Otherwise, don't waste our time. Flower, Sun and Rain would have made a great essay, light novel, anime or movie. The video game medium isn't suited for it. Suda51 would fit right in at the Sundance movie festival.

I'd say the general consensus from gamers and critics is the gameplay in Flower was anything but awful.  The game may not have appealed to you personally, but the game mechanics worked fine and I certainly found it fun to play - in fact I still do and will re-play levels just for the fun they give me.

Flower, Sun and Rain scored 54 in metacritic. The general consensus hasn't been positive. Among critics and gamers who don't drink the Suda 51 kool-aid (not to say his other works aren't good but he does have a really cult-like fanbase that berates anyone that doesn't think his work is gold), FSR had been widely criticized for its gameplay. Among major reviewers, IGN gave it 5.5 (gameplay was rated 5.0) and Gamespot gave it 6.0. They praised the game for its story and arthouse direction (which I stated are the big positives with the game) but also criticized the game for the following reasons (all of which deal with gameplay):

  • Awful camera  
  • Vague directions make some puzzles a chore  
  • Constant backtracking on foot is annoying.

As dangerous as it is to theorize about what another person is thinking, I wonder if Reasonable didn't misread your post -- i.e. he could conceivably have thought you were talking about Flower the PSN game with flower petals. 

I hesitate to throw this out as Reasonable is such a good poster, but anyone can make a mistake.  I'm basing this on the way you shortened it to FSR (which seems reasonable) rather than using the first word of the title, Flower, which he did.



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Reasonable on 28 December 2009
Final-Fan said:
loves2splooge said:
Reasonable said:
loves2splooge said:

Flower, Sun and Rain absolutely needed story because without it, it had zero value. The gameplay was awful. That is an example of story not being able to save a game with poor gameplay. Yes it has merit but is it enjoyable? No. Games are supposed to be enjoyable. I enjoyed reading someone's analytical essay on the game more than playing the actual game. I don't think it's fair to force the end-user to go through 10 hours (or however long it was) of crappy gameplay just to communicate a message to them. I don't care how much e-cred I lose by saying that Suda51 can't hide behind artistic merit as an excuse for poor gameplay design. Games are supposed to be fun. Otherwise, don't waste our time. Flower, Sun and Rain would have made a great essay, light novel, anime or movie. The video game medium isn't suited for it. Suda51 would fit right in at the Sundance movie festival.

I'd say the general consensus from gamers and critics is the gameplay in Flower was anything but awful.  The game may not have appealed to you personally, but the game mechanics worked fine and I certainly found it fun to play - in fact I still do and will re-play levels just for the fun they give me.

Flower, Sun and Rain scored 54 in metacritic. The general consensus hasn't been positive. Among critics and gamers who don't drink the Suda 51 kool-aid (not to say his other works aren't good but he does have a really cult-like fanbase that berates anyone that doesn't think his work is gold), FSR had been widely criticized for its gameplay. Among major reviewers, IGN gave it 5.5 (gameplay was rated 5.0) and Gamespot gave it 6.0. They praised the game for its story and arthouse direction (which I stated are the big positives with the game) but also criticized the game for the following reasons (all of which deal with gameplay):

  • Awful camera  
  • Vague directions make some puzzles a chore  
  • Constant backtracking on foot is annoying.

As dangerous as it is to theorize about what another person is thinking, I wonder if Reasonable didn't misread your post -- i.e. he could conceivably have thought you were talking about Flower the PSN game with flower petals. 

I hesitate to throw this out as Reasonable is such a good poster, but anyone can make a mistake.  I'm basing this on the way you shortened it to FSR (which seems reasonable) rather than using the first word of the title, Flower, which he did.

Sorry, I was.  I thought Flower, Sun and Rain was referring to three games!  At least this explains why I couldn't find anything on Sun and Rain individually.

Yeah, I was talking about Flower - metacritic score 84%.  Flower, Sun and Rain I now know is a DS game with a metacritic score of 54%.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

onikenshi on 28 December 2009

Games can have little to no story and be considered the second coming. Look at NSMBW and MW2. But then you can have games have a good or great story and be engaging such as MGS4, Zelda, GOW1,2, Gears of War 1,2, etc.
Story may not be necessary for some genres but for alot it can be something important and/or special. JRPG's/WRPG's obviously, but then you can also look at platforming types like ratchet and clank, Kid Chameleon, FPS's like KZ2 and Haze (story was actually very interesting, but gameplay and enemy AI was.....you fill in the blank) along with Halo, Red Faction 1 and 2, then you look at action adventure types like SOTN, fighting games like KoF series (Orochi and Nest sagas for example), Fatal Fury, SF, Guilty Gear (this one had an extensive story behind each character), and even combat driving games like Twisted Metal had some good story behind several characters.