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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - IGN N-Podcast 60 and Summary - How Wii doesn't even compare to Current Gen.

Bobbuffalo on 15 December 2009
Khuutra said:
Bobbuffalo said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:
Is this discussion suddenly about arguing the merits of the Wii? Are we supposed to be arguing with the statements by IGN here?

I have no idea. I'm just arguing that they are perfectly justfied in critisizing the wii for it's shortcomings, and that the wii doesn't some how get a free pass when they critisize every system. Regardless of whether or not a person thinks that Zelda should have voice acting, they mentioned a great many problems the wii has, and simply calling them trolls is a crass way of trying to cover up the many valid critisisms that they make.

If that's the case then I would argue that the dissatisfaction here (while undoubtedly partially caused by ruffled feathers) also has somehting to do with the fact that their method of statement lacks any kind of journalistic professionalism, or even any kind of critical mode or regularity. They make several unqualified statements concerning company resource allocation for various projects and make disparaging remarks that would be tremendously difficult or impossible to verify, and openly state in the podcast that they say these things solely for the purpose of being inflammatory.

Is that enough of a reason to be dissatisfied with their journalistic or editorial dialogue, ignoring my avatar?

They are not journalists, they are enthusiast press. They are professional opinion givers. The vast majority of them do not have degrees in journalism, nor do they claim to be journalists. Their job is that of pundits, to give their views and opinions on what they see. I heard the podcast, they were being sarcastic when they said they are just trying to get clicks by bashing wii. To say that one disagrees with some of it is perfectly justifiable. To ignore everything they are saying which is very justified, under the blanket of "They are just trolls" isn't justified, and is just the usual videogame loyalist method of defending their brand of choice. They've been very regular in their critisisms of all three systems, and what critical "mode" do you want, other than the mode of enthusiast gamer disatisfied with their wii?

Then way more reasons to treat them like the retarded people they are and point their biased, childish and pathetic opinions.

 

Just because is an opinion doesn't mean they are right or that they should be forgiven If they are wrong. period. end of story.

 

And NSMBWii doesn't have online, leaderboards, push the wii to its limits..

 

SO WHAT?!

You are really hurting my argument here

Sorry <_< that was a response to vagabond and kylie



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Khuutra on 15 December 2009
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:

Common sense doesn't mean a lot in this case - unless, like Kylie, you want to call Miyamoto a liar. If that's the case, then the burden of proof is on you, and "common sense" does not qualify.

Fine, you keep on believing that Miyamoto wasn't doing PR, and that NSMBW is in fact the pinnacle of what the wii can handle technologically, that in fact the people absolutely most familiar with the system cannot in actuality squeeze any more out of it than what has been accomplished with the monumental technical feat that is NSMBW. Back when the wii was released there were many nay sayers saying "NAY! There can never be a 2d platformer, that looks like a decent improvement over a DS game, running with 4 people simultaneously! The wii cannot handle it! What, with all the goomba matrixes, and Koopa AI and the like!" But, they were proven wrong when Miyamoto personally rolled up his sleeves and showed them that you could get 3....no...no....4!!! 4!!! Players playing at once!!! With some complex abstract mathematics, and a completely new programming language designed entirely for this game alone invented by miyamoto, one could in fact mimic Super Smash Brothers Brawl's Adventure mode with less textures, fewer graphical effects, and midi music, at the expense of online play!

You go ahead and believe it, I'm going to remain incredulous that NSMBW is the pinnacle of wii technology.

He's doing PR by calling the Wii too weak to handle a 2-D Mario and Wii Speak at the same time? That just doesn't appeal to my common sense



Khuutra on 15 December 2009
Bobbuffalo said:
Khuutra said:
Bobbuffalo said:

Then way more reasons to treat them like the retarded people they are and point their biased, childish and pathetic opinions.

 

Just because is an opinion doesn't mean they are right or that they should be forgiven If they are wrong. period. end of story.

 

And NSMBWii doesn't have online, leaderboards, push the wii to its limits..

 

SO WHAT?!

You are really hurting my argument here

Sorry <_< that was a response to vagabond and kylie

Listen dude

You got to realize that inflammatory statements like that are exactly the kind of thing people are dismissing IGN's editors for in this case, and in making them you are udnermining the idea that people who disagree with IGN are speaking from a reasonable perspective



The_vagabond7 on 15 December 2009
Khuutra said:
Bobbuffalo said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:
Is this discussion suddenly about arguing the merits of the Wii? Are we supposed to be arguing with the statements by IGN here?

I have no idea. I'm just arguing that they are perfectly justfied in critisizing the wii for it's shortcomings, and that the wii doesn't some how get a free pass when they critisize every system. Regardless of whether or not a person thinks that Zelda should have voice acting, they mentioned a great many problems the wii has, and simply calling them trolls is a crass way of trying to cover up the many valid critisisms that they make.

If that's the case then I would argue that the dissatisfaction here (while undoubtedly partially caused by ruffled feathers) also has somehting to do with the fact that their method of statement lacks any kind of journalistic professionalism, or even any kind of critical mode or regularity. They make several unqualified statements concerning company resource allocation for various projects and make disparaging remarks that would be tremendously difficult or impossible to verify, and openly state in the podcast that they say these things solely for the purpose of being inflammatory.

Is that enough of a reason to be dissatisfied with their journalistic or editorial dialogue, ignoring my avatar?

They are not journalists, they are enthusiast press. They are professional opinion givers. The vast majority of them do not have degrees in journalism, nor do they claim to be journalists. Their job is that of pundits, to give their views and opinions on what they see. I heard the podcast, they were being sarcastic when they said they are just trying to get clicks by bashing wii. To say that one disagrees with some of it is perfectly justifiable. To ignore everything they are saying which is very justified, under the blanket of "They are just trolls" isn't justified, and is just the usual videogame loyalist method of defending their brand of choice. They've been very regular in their critisisms of all three systems, and what critical "mode" do you want, other than the mode of enthusiast gamer disatisfied with their wii?

Then way more reasons to treat them like the retarded people they are and point their biased, childish and pathetic opinions.

 

Just because is an opinion doesn't mean they are right or that they should be forgiven If they are wrong. period. end of story.

 

And NSMBWii doesn't have online, leaderboards, push the wii to its limits..

 

SO WHAT?!

You are really hurting my argument here

 

lol, I love ya khuutra. I just disagree. I don't agree with everything they said, but most of it I do. I think to call Nintendo out on what they've done this generation is perfectly acceptable, and I don't think they are trolls for doing it. You may be perfectly sensible, but the majority of people objecting to this are just fanboys that are butthurt that Nintendo is getting called out on their apathy/laziness.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Bobbuffalo on 15 December 2009
Khuutra said:
Bobbuffalo said:
Khuutra said:
Bobbuffalo said:

Then way more reasons to treat them like the retarded people they are and point their biased, childish and pathetic opinions.

 

Just because is an opinion doesn't mean they are right or that they should be forgiven If they are wrong. period. end of story.

 

And NSMBWii doesn't have online, leaderboards, push the wii to its limits..

 

SO WHAT?!

You are really hurting my argument here

Sorry <_< that was a response to vagabond and kylie

Listen dude

You got to realize that inflammatory statements like that are exactly the kind of thing people are dismissing IGN's editors for in this case, and in making them you are udnermining the idea that people who disagree with IGN are speaking from a reasonable perspective

Very true. I apologize and delete the post.



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Mr Khan on 15 December 2009
Khuutra said:

He's doing PR by calling the Wii too weak to handle a 2-D Mario and Wii Speak at the same time? That just doesn't appeal to my common sense

That's the key. Who does that lie help, if it is indeed a lie? How would it help?



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Khuutra on 15 December 2009
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:

You are really hurting my argument here

lol, I love ya khuutra. I just disagree. I don't agree with everything they said, but most of it I do. I think to call Nintendo out on what they've done this generation is perfectly acceptable, and I don't think they are trolls for doing it. You may be perfectly sensible, but the majority of people objecting to this are just fanboys that are butthurt that Nintendo is getting called out on their apathy/laziness.

.....I don't think I really have grounds to argue on that point from here on out. Consider this particular line of conversation conceded, I suppose



The_vagabond7 on 15 December 2009
Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:

Common sense doesn't mean a lot in this case - unless, like Kylie, you want to call Miyamoto a liar. If that's the case, then the burden of proof is on you, and "common sense" does not qualify.

Fine, you keep on believing that Miyamoto wasn't doing PR, and that NSMBW is in fact the pinnacle of what the wii can handle technologically, that in fact the people absolutely most familiar with the system cannot in actuality squeeze any more out of it than what has been accomplished with the monumental technical feat that is NSMBW. Back when the wii was released there were many nay sayers saying "NAY! There can never be a 2d platformer, that looks like a decent improvement over a DS game, running with 4 people simultaneously! The wii cannot handle it! What, with all the goomba matrixes, and Koopa AI and the like!" But, they were proven wrong when Miyamoto personally rolled up his sleeves and showed them that you could get 3....no...no....4!!! 4!!! Players playing at once!!! With some complex abstract mathematics, and a completely new programming language designed entirely for this game alone invented by miyamoto, one could in fact mimic Super Smash Brothers Brawl's Adventure mode with less textures, fewer graphical effects, and midi music, at the expense of online play!

You go ahead and believe it, I'm going to remain incredulous that NSMBW is the pinnacle of wii technology.

He's doing PR by calling the Wii too weak to handle a 2-D Mario and Wii Speak at the same time? That just doesn't appeal to my common sense

Yes. Because the alternative is to say "We would have to put money and resources into making it an online game, and we wanted to produce this as cheaply and quickly as possible". He could've come up with better answers such as "we wanted it to be played locally" which I think he may have said that too, but don't quote me on it. Either way PR doesn't mean good PR, it just means an attempt to convince the public that they should love you and that you aren't trying to milk a lazy product for big profit. So It doesn't offend your common sense that the wii is able to do vastly more complex games with online and wiispeak, and that the max the wii can handle is keeping track of where 15 koopa troopas are, walking back and forth in a set simplistic pattern? The goombas don't activate until you get close to them, they just walk in a straight line, oh, but there are those moving platforms that might be moving even if you're not on screen....that's gotta take some power to keep track of, right?



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

LordTheNightKnight on 15 December 2009
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:

It's an appeal to common sense. The conduit can run on wii with online multiplayer for...what was it 12 people? Or was it 8? Either way, NSMBW does not push the wii as hard as the Conduit. I don't have specs, I have common sense.

Common sense doesn't mean a lot in this case - unless, like Kylie, you want to call Miyamoto a liar. If that's the case, then the burden of proof is on you, and "common sense" does not qualify.

Fine, you keep on believing that Miyamoto wasn't doing PR, and that NSMBW is in fact the pinnacle of what the wii can handle technologically, that in fact the people absolutely most familiar with the system cannot in actuality squeeze any more out of it than what has been accomplished with the monumental technical feat that is NSMBW. Back when the wii was released there were many nay sayers saying "NAY! There can never be a 2d platformer, that looks like a decent improvement over a DS game, running with 4 people simultaneously! The wii cannot handle it! What, with all the goomba matrixes, and Koopa AI and the like!" But, they were proven wrong when Miyamoto personally rolled up his sleeves and showed them that you could get 3....no...no....4!!! 4!!! Players playing at once!!! With some complex abstract mathematics, and a completely new programming language designed entirely for this game alone invented by miyamoto, one could in fact mimic Super Smash Brothers Brawl's Adventure mode with less textures, fewer graphical effects, and midi music, at the expense of online play!

You go ahead and believe it, I'm going to remain incredulous that NSMBW is the pinnacle of wii technology.

"looks like a decent improvement over a DS game"

You have a problem right there. Upscaled pictures have shown the polygon count and texturing is well above N64 level, not a "decent improvement", and those still don't tell us the full usage of the system.

So your argument lies on the belief the level of the graphics is far lower than what we've actually seen of the game, through our own common sense.

In short, your premise isn't unproven. It's outright false. NSMBWii starts out the character models around level of Super Mario Sunshine. Take a good look at the screens, preferably the larger ones.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

The_vagabond7 on 15 December 2009
LordTheNightKnight said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:

It's an appeal to common sense. The conduit can run on wii with online multiplayer for...what was it 12 people? Or was it 8? Either way, NSMBW does not push the wii as hard as the Conduit. I don't have specs, I have common sense.

Common sense doesn't mean a lot in this case - unless, like Kylie, you want to call Miyamoto a liar. If that's the case, then the burden of proof is on you, and "common sense" does not qualify.

Fine, you keep on believing that Miyamoto wasn't doing PR, and that NSMBW is in fact the pinnacle of what the wii can handle technologically, that in fact the people absolutely most familiar with the system cannot in actuality squeeze any more out of it than what has been accomplished with the monumental technical feat that is NSMBW. Back when the wii was released there were many nay sayers saying "NAY! There can never be a 2d platformer, that looks like a decent improvement over a DS game, running with 4 people simultaneously! The wii cannot handle it! What, with all the goomba matrixes, and Koopa AI and the like!" But, they were proven wrong when Miyamoto personally rolled up his sleeves and showed them that you could get 3....no...no....4!!! 4!!! Players playing at once!!! With some complex abstract mathematics, and a completely new programming language designed entirely for this game alone invented by miyamoto, one could in fact mimic Super Smash Brothers Brawl's Adventure mode with less textures, fewer graphical effects, and midi music, at the expense of online play!

You go ahead and believe it, I'm going to remain incredulous that NSMBW is the pinnacle of wii technology.

"looks like a decent improvement over a DS game"

You have a problem right there. Upscaled pictures have shown the polygon count and texturing is well above N64 level, not a "decent improvement", and those still don't tell us the full usage of the system.

So your argument lies on the belief the level of the graphics is far lower than what we've actually seen of the game, through our own common sense.

In short, your premise isn't unproven. It's outright false. NSMBWii starts out the character models around level of Super Mario Sunshine. Take a good look at the screens, preferably the larger ones.

So then super Mario Sunshine in 2d is the max the wii can handle? Is the wii suddenly weaker than the gamecube? Smash Bros brawl looks demonstrably better than NSMBW, and has 4 player online. The NES can handle the goombas, platforms, and koopa troopas, so somehow I doubt the levels put that much of a strain on the wii. What is it that is pushing the wii so hard in this game I wonder?



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.