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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - IGN N-Podcast 60 and Summary - How Wii doesn't even compare to Current Gen.

The_vagabond7 said:

There is only one of two possibilities with the wii.

Either (A)The wii isn't directly competing with the PS360. It intentionally is a side step to target a different market, and has little to do with the original gaming market that the PS360 attempt to continue to tap like conventional consoles in the past.

or (B) The wii is attempting to directly compete with the PS360. It tries to have it's cake and eat it too. It wants the new market of freshly inducted "for fun" gamers that don't take it too seriously, and also is trying to get the traditional gamer that listens to Videogame podcasts and has more than one Videogame website in their bookmarks to check regularly, and will spend more of their money and time on gaming than the former group.

If it's (A) then the wii is a smashing success. But the loyal Nintendo fans don't want to hear it called this, unless it is in the most praising glowing terms of Nintendo's Genius and various maelstrom colloquialisms on Nintendo's daring and foresight. Should some one say it's a great system for kids, and grandma, and something you break out for parties and collects dust the rest of the time, it is a condescending travesty and trolling. Even though the expanded market is kids and older adults, and new people who don't invest that much time or money in gaming.

If A is true, then it is no wonder the enthusiast press is very sour on it, they are not the market for it. And just like a food critic is under no professional obligation to praise McDonalds up and down for it's populace appeal, salty and fatty meals that many find tasty, and their competitive marketing to poor minorities, the enthusiast press is under no obligation to praise Nintendo up and down for taking alot of shortcuts, adding no frills, overcharging for a cheap product, and marketing it to people that don't play many videogames just because it's a success at doing that. The general populace can be satisfied with it and the enthusiast press can still call them out for them making an extreme profit with business savvy at the expense of the inexperienced, non enthusiast consumer. There is no wrong doing there, they are not forced to pander to enthusiast gamers who are also extreme Nintendo loyalists. And the new market isn't reading their website, and don't even know IGN exists.

If (B) is true then Nintendo has just done an atrocious job, and they should rightly be called out on it. If the wii is meant to compete with the PS360, then it is only fair to directly compare it to the other two, in which case it is overpriced, underpowered, and is missing a ton of functionality. The PS360 will both have motion control in some fashion next year, the wii won't have the same online functionality, horsepower, streamlined multimedia functions, ect. If (B) is true, it's not a different experience, it's a lesser experience. Even if you personally don't mind inputting a 12 digit friend code for every person in each game individually, and can't tell who's playing what without popping in different games, or calling them first to co-ordinate you gaming, the other systems offer something drastically better in their online functionality. If (B) is true then there is no wrongdoing on the part of the press because they are perfectly justified on calling Nintendo out on apathetically offering an inferior system.

IGN is calling it like it sees it. The ones complaining are largely just Nintendo loyalists that would rather have them cup Nintendo's balls while they are working the shaft. That's not how it works. They called the 360 out for it's terrible hardware, they've panned the PS3 for it's atrocious launch, PSN's constant game of catch up to LIVE , it's inferior ports, and stupid failures such as "HOME". It's not isolated to just the problems the wii has. I have a wii, I love my wii for what it is, but I acknowledge it has it's abundance of faults. I listen to Nintendo Voice Chat every week, and I didn't hear anything this week that I disagree with. Trying to say that the enthusiasts press's view of the wii is totally unjustified is just putting fanboy blinders on. It's a good system for children and grandma's to pull out every few months, but for people that actually play games (IE the people that go to discuss them on websites) it's got a host of problems that shouldn't be ignored. I can buy No More Heroes 2 on day 1, and still say that the wii has god awful online functionality, and is missing alot of features for the price it sells at. That doesn't make me or the gamers at IGN raging trolls.

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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
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"The lag is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for NSMBW not to have an online component. If some of the Wii's other games have it why can't NSMBW. If much more demanding games period, can have online there is NO reason NSMBW can't."

Just assuming it's not as demanding is not proof. You have to actually show the resource use in terms of hard numbers. You can't just assume it's so and expect the games to be that way.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

The_vagabond7 said:

There is only one of two possibilities with the wii.

Either (A)The wii isn't directly competing with the PS360. It intentionally is a side step to target a different market, and has little to do with the original gaming market that the PS360 attempt to continue to tap like conventional consoles in the past.

or (B) The wii is attempting to directly compete with the PS360. It tries to have it's cake and eat it too. It wants the new market of freshly inducted "for fun" gamers that don't take it too seriously, and also is trying to get the traditional gamer that listens to Videogame podcasts and has more than one Videogame website in their bookmarks to check regularly, and will spend more of their money and time on gaming than the former group.

Erm

Don't you see this as a bit of an oversimplification?



Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:

There is only one of two possibilities with the wii.

Either (A)The wii isn't directly competing with the PS360. It intentionally is a side step to target a different market, and has little to do with the original gaming market that the PS360 attempt to continue to tap like conventional consoles in the past.

or (B) The wii is attempting to directly compete with the PS360. It tries to have it's cake and eat it too. It wants the new market of freshly inducted "for fun" gamers that don't take it too seriously, and also is trying to get the traditional gamer that listens to Videogame podcasts and has more than one Videogame website in their bookmarks to check regularly, and will spend more of their money and time on gaming than the former group.

Erm

Don't you see this as a bit of an oversimplification?

 

No.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

I can't believe that nobody's saying hkw fanboyish this article is



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The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:

There is only one of two possibilities with the wii.

Either (A)The wii isn't directly competing with the PS360. It intentionally is a side step to target a different market, and has little to do with the original gaming market that the PS360 attempt to continue to tap like conventional consoles in the past.

or (B) The wii is attempting to directly compete with the PS360. It tries to have it's cake and eat it too. It wants the new market of freshly inducted "for fun" gamers that don't take it too seriously, and also is trying to get the traditional gamer that listens to Videogame podcasts and has more than one Videogame website in their bookmarks to check regularly, and will spend more of their money and time on gaming than the former group.

Erm

Don't you see this as a bit of an oversimplification?

No.

All right, maybe I'm not being clear enough here.. Your statement for A suggests something reasonable enoguh - that Nintendo is not directly competing with Microsoft and Sony - but that in itself can have two (or more) very different implications.

The first (let's say) is the one that you list, that they are actively aiming for an audience that Microsoft and Sony do not have and do not want, and are ignoring the audience that the other two have.

The other (unnamed) possibility is that Nintendo is gaining headways into new revenue streams in addition to continuing with parts of their core strategies, and are not competing with Microsoft and Sony in the sense that they don't really give a shit what Microsoft and Sony do.

Are these not two different but legitimate interpretations of that scenario?



Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:
The_vagabond7 said:

There is only one of two possibilities with the wii.

Either (A)The wii isn't directly competing with the PS360. It intentionally is a side step to target a different market, and has little to do with the original gaming market that the PS360 attempt to continue to tap like conventional consoles in the past.

or (B) The wii is attempting to directly compete with the PS360. It tries to have it's cake and eat it too. It wants the new market of freshly inducted "for fun" gamers that don't take it too seriously, and also is trying to get the traditional gamer that listens to Videogame podcasts and has more than one Videogame website in their bookmarks to check regularly, and will spend more of their money and time on gaming than the former group.

Erm

Don't you see this as a bit of an oversimplification?

No.

All right, maybe I'm not being clear enough here.. Your statement for A suggests something reasonable enoguh - that Nintendo is not directly competing with Microsoft and Sony - but that in itself can have two (or more) very different implications.

The first (let's say) is the one that you list, that they are actively aiming for an audience that Microsoft and Sony do not have and do not want, and are ignoring the audience that the other two have.

The other (unnamed) possibility is that Nintendo is gaining headways into new revenue streams in addition to continuing with parts of their core strategies, and are not competing with Microsoft and Sony in the sense that they don't really give a shit what Microsoft and Sony do.

Are these not two different but legitimate interpretations of that scenario?

No. That's just a kinder rephrasing with market speak of the scenarios I posit. Your first is (A) the second is just (B) with them being too cool to care if they are ignored by the traditional gamer. What is their "core strategy"? To create a system that traditional gamers would enjoy? If so, they are competing with the PS360, even if they say otherwise. Does their "core strategy" have nothing to do with the same market the PS360 are pursuing? Then you're back in the (A) scenario. Either they want the market that the PS360 are going after, or they don't. There isn't a middle ground. Being aloof isn't somehow a more respectable (or sensical) option that makes it so the media is somehow giving them undue grief.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

KylieDog said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
"The lag is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for NSMBW not to have an online component. If some of the Wii's other games have it why can't NSMBW. If much more demanding games period, can have online there is NO reason NSMBW can't."

Just assuming it's not as demanding is not proof. You have to actually show the resource use in terms of hard numbers. You can't just assume it's so and expect the games to be that way.

 

Why do you always post this type statement.   If MW: Reflex can do 12 players online (or is it 10..whatever) I think is safe to say that NSMB Wii can do it too.   Not exactly pushing the system is it.  In any way at all.

 

Posting "but you don't know" when it pretty obvious the answer is a terribly weak defence.  It is on level with saying if you hold up a dinner plate and let it go it won't dropt o the ground, "because you don't know".

Gravity is not an unproven thing. The specs and system resource usage of NSMBWii is. You claim I have a weak defense, but you think a hard and fast force of nature is a metaphor for how something runs on a computer.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

The_vagabond7 said:
Khuutra said:

All right, maybe I'm not being clear enough here.. Your statement for A suggests something reasonable enoguh - that Nintendo is not directly competing with Microsoft and Sony - but that in itself can have two (or more) very different implications.

The first (let's say) is the one that you list, that they are actively aiming for an audience that Microsoft and Sony do not have and do not want, and are ignoring the audience that the other two have.

The other (unnamed) possibility is that Nintendo is gaining headways into new revenue streams in addition to continuing with parts of their core strategies, and are not competing with Microsoft and Sony in the sense that they don't really give a shit what Microsoft and Sony do.

Are these not two different but legitimate interpretations of that scenario?

No. That's just a kinder rephrasing with market speak of the scenarios I posit. Your first is (A) the second is just (B) with them being too cool to care if they are ignored by the traditional gamer. What is their "core strategy"? To create a system that traditional gamers would enjoy? If so, they are competing with the PS360, even if they say otherwise. Does their "core strategy" have nothing to do with the same market the PS360 are pursuing? Then you're back in the (A) scenario. Either they want the market that the PS360 are going after, or they don't. There isn't a middle ground. Being aloof isn't somehow a more respectable (or sensical) option that makes it so the media is somehow giving them undue grief.

No, it isn't. When I said "core strategy" I was referring specifically to the way that they produce core games (their words). As in, they still cater to the core in addition to undercutting the competition by cutting their way into new markets.

Being in direct competition implies that the actions of Microsoft and Sony would imply that Nintendo takes a reactionary stance to their methods, which is not the same thing as going for a similar market. You can go for the same market - being in competition - without being in direct competition, which is to say they are not being reactionary.

I would say that's actually closer to the truth, though, and it's starting to show - they should have been reactionary in certain places where they were not, and Reggie in particular is starting to publically opine that fact.



LordTheNightKnight said:
KylieDog said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
"The lag is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for NSMBW not to have an online component. If some of the Wii's other games have it why can't NSMBW. If much more demanding games period, can have online there is NO reason NSMBW can't."

Just assuming it's not as demanding is not proof. You have to actually show the resource use in terms of hard numbers. You can't just assume it's so and expect the games to be that way.

 

Why do you always post this type statement.   If MW: Reflex can do 12 players online (or is it 10..whatever) I think is safe to say that NSMB Wii can do it too.   Not exactly pushing the system is it.  In any way at all.

 

Posting "but you don't know" when it pretty obvious the answer is a terribly weak defence.  It is on level with saying if you hold up a dinner plate and let it go it won't dropt o the ground, "because you don't know".

Gravity is not an unproven thing. The specs and system resource usage of NSMBWii is. You claim I have a weak defense, but you think a hard and fast force of nature is a metaphor for how something runs on a computer.

No offense, but do you really think that NSMBW is really pushing the wii to it's limit? What's it doing that Smash Brothers didn't? What is NSMBW doing that is using up more resources that Smash Bros, to such an extent that it had to strip out features present in Smash bros? Your argument from incredulity seems a bit of a stretch. Do you really believe it, or are you just trying to take a debating stance?



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.