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Soma said:
"The Relationship Between the Gamer and Developer" article was pretty funny lol

Makes lots of sense too. I also liked the last article.



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Yeah, he was spot on. I still need to read the other two.



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LordTheNightKnight said:

First of all, thanks for catching us up, Rhonin. Second of all, how did you avoid it turning into a quote train?

I used the HTML quote code which the forum utilizes when the QUOTE button is pressed.

This is the code:

<table style="width: 90%;" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#bbbbbb">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td bgcolor="#282828">Text here.
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>



Okay, thanks. I'm using that as the template here.

This one is interesting. Some developers really quit rather than make games for the Wii? What babies. Even if most of those did it before the recession, that looks really dumb today.

Also the thread here about Just Dance shows how many gamers and game developers just refuse to see anything they don't like as a game.







Malstrom said:

 

Why Miyamoto is awesome

Check out this story.

In the 16-bit Era and earlier, Miyamoto wasn’t who he was today. Most gamers then didn’t know where Mario came from. The more informed ones did. But even back then, there was none of this Miyamoto-As-Game-God stuff at that time. At least, nothing to the extent that it became.

I first heard about Miyamoto when reading that splendid interview of him in the “Making of Super Mario Brothers 3″ that appeared in Nintendo Power. At the time, I thought, “That is cool,” and then proceeded to ignore the Miyamoto interview to focus more on whatever they were saying about Super Mario Brothers 3.

Returning to gaming, one very clear difference from then and now is the presence of ‘Game Gods’. These ‘Game Gods’ are portrayed as if they are ‘masterpiece artists’ and they, alone, come down from a mountain holding digital tablets that is their ‘vision’ that becomes the game. The ‘Game God’ has been very good for marketing purposes of hype and ’special interviews’. But the ‘Game God’ has created too many problems.

The biggest problem with the ‘Game God’ is that it is causing so many young people to enter the “Game Industry” with the mission to become a ‘Game God’ as they are convinced they are the next Shigeru Miyamoto. Why is this a problem? It gets the young budding developer away from focusing on customer reactions to the games. The ‘vision’ of the game developer doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is the consumer experience. You could even say the true designer of video games is the consumer reaction. Game designers don’t make their games easy to get into because they are benevolent artists, they make their games easy to get into because it has a much better consumer reaction. I’ve noticed the ‘Artist God’ has been prevalent lately in many mediums be it music, books, or movies. It might also explain why more and more people are saying these mediums “are not fun anymore”.

Another problem of the ‘Game God’ is that it leaves out the rest of the team and minimizes them. David Jaffe placed his name on the cover of Twisted Metal “Designed by David Jaffe” and his team complained. In the next printing, Jaffe’s name was taken off of there. Why did the team complain? Basically, if they went to apply to work anywhere else, someone would say, “Oh, that game was all made by Jaffe, you guys just did the labor. You have no creativity whatsoever.” The ‘Miyamoto As Game God’ had reached such absurd levels where people were actually thinking Miyamoto came down from a mountain holding Donkey Kong, Super Mario Brothers, and Zelda which he made entirely by himself.

Games are very difficult to make and requires a diverse range of talents. Programmers do not often make good artists and vice versa. The talk of ‘vision’ is silly because everyone has a vision. I’ve learned in life that people have far more intelligence than could be absorbed into their work (leading to frequent frustration). Everyone, indeed, has ‘visions’.

But another problem with the ‘Game God’ is what happens if the ‘Game God’ leaves or retires? What happened if Shigeru Miyamoto stepped in front of a bus? Nintendo stock would crash. Everyone would declare Nintendo, as a company, is over.People would say Nintendo would be incapable of ever making another ‘magical’ game. So Miyamoto-As-Game-God marketing persona was becoming a greater and greater liability.

Miyamoto has had wealth and fame that the rest of us will never have. It is no disservice to him to stop treating him as a walking demi-god. I also suspect Miyamoto is probably a little tired of it anyhow. Most celebrities get tired of the fame rather quickly.

I prefer to think that there are multiple geniuses at Nintendo, a constellation rather than just one, solitary, and singular star.

So what about Miyamoto-the-Man? From my long distance observations, I think Miyamoto is special in three ways:

First, he is a life quester and puts that into his games. A life quester is someone who looks at life in an exploratory way and does not separate it from his work. The best entertainers are life questers. An example of this would be Miyamoto trying to get fit and weighing himself. This ‘life quest’ ended up turning into the best selling Wii Fit. Most game developers do not ‘life quest’ in the same way. Or, to be more precise, they do not try to put their ‘life quest’ into a video game. The idea of using weight scales for a game is so… insane at first glance.

Second, Miyamoto seems to be extremely, excuse the phrase, ‘emotionally intelligent’. The biggest problem I am observing with game makers is they are not emotionally there. Intellectually, they understand gaming. They can quote me various systems. But emotionally, they are very cold. Recently, I was in a shouting argument with a software developer because he insisted he called the new generation games as ‘casual games’ and anyone who plays them as ‘casual gamers’. I had pointed out, “Casual games is just slang by those who don’t know what is going on. Nintendo never says ‘casual games’.” “I don’t care what Nintendo says! What they are doing are ‘casual games’!” “And where did you ever learn that phrase of ‘casual games’? It certainly didn’t come from those who are making this Expanded Market games.” And this argument went on to screaming matches because the software developer refused to change the context of his thinking. Basically, he insisted on the ‘retarded gamers’ lingo. The only way I could get through to him was to remind him of arcade games. “How are these any different than arcade games of your youth?” And then to point out how games have become so much more radically complicated than Pac-Man or Tetris. We need to make sure games like Pac-Man and Tetris keep coming out for new generations so there will always be gamers.

Many game developers appear to ‘drift’ a certain direction. An example of this would be Nintendo game developers trying to cram stories and operas into games like Mario. Miyamoto instinctively rejects this. He understands that a game should… well… be a game. I think Miyamoto as head of the software team at Nintendo is keeping these ‘emotional eccentricities’ of game developers in check at Nintendo. Games like Mario and Zelda have not completely burned to the ground because Miyamoto is making sure they don’t go off on bizarre tangents (like Metroid is about to do *cough* *cough*).

It became clear to me that there was some sort of emotional deficiency with game developers when I began hearing reports of game developers rage quitting if they had to make a game for an untraditional audience (such as working on the Wii). Why on Earth would someone get upset having to make a game that your wife or children would want to play? And for all the talk I heard from game developers about being ‘console agnostic’ at the start of this generation, many were certainly pissed off about the Wii selling so well.

In the future, game developers may end up having to make games mostly for people in China and India (since most of the world’s population is located there). I could imagine them being upset about that, but why get angry about making a game for your neighbors?

Miyamoto has a level head. When Super Mario 64 came out, Miyamoto publicly said he thought the game was a failure compared to Tomagotchi. Where one game used 3d graphics, the other triumphed using dot matrix pixels as graphics. I can’t think of many game developers who would say anything remotely like that. Many would get in an emotional knot and say, “Tomagotchi is not a real game. It does not have 3d graphics.” Remember my shouting match with that software developer? So even back when Super Mario 64 came out, there were “casual games” but Miyamoto recognized them as equals. Today, most game developers cannot bring themselves to do this.

It must take a level head to steer through the ebbs and flows of the market. There are good surprises such as the success of Wii Sports and Wii Fit. And there are surprises that had to hurt such as Windwaker being controversial in Western markets or User Generated Content not taking off or more recently consumers preferring 2d Mario over 3d Mario. Even for Nintendo, the market never moves as they expect. This could be why they find making video games to be so interesting.

And the third thing is that Miyamoto loves children. This is perhaps the reason what Yamauchi saw that caused him to hire Miyamoto in the first place. Consider this from “Game Over”:

He asked his father to contact an old friend, Hiroshi Yamauchi, who ran Nintendo. The elder Miyamoto asked Yamauchi to meet with his son, a recent graduate with a degree in industrial design, who was looking for a job. “We need engineers, not painters,” Yamauchi said, but he agreed to a meeting as a favor to his friend.

Miyamoto was twenty-four in 1977, when he entered the office of the Nintendo chairman. He had shaggy hair, boyish freckles, and a cat-who-swallowed-the-canary smile. He dressed nicely, and he behaved in accordance with traditional etiquette, yet there was mischief and wonder in his eyes. Yamauchi liked the young man and asked him to return for another meeting, this time with some ideas for toys.

Miyamoto returned with a portfolio and a large sack from which he produced a recent invention. It was a clothes hanger designed for children. Nursery schools could have a row of them along the wall, he explained. Or parents could put them in children’s rooms. Regular metal hangers, he told Yamauchi, were dangerous for children; the pointed hook could hurt them, even poke out an eye. His hanger, carved out of soft wood and covered with cheerful acrylic paint, was in the shape of an elephant’s head. Clothes were hung on the ears and turned-up trunk. The elephant’s neck fit snugly like a puzzle piece onto a knob that attached to a wall.

Miyamoto had other hangers as well: a bird and a chicken. Then he showed Yamauchi some drawings for more elaborate toys- a whimsical clock for an amusement park; a swing within a seesaw on which three children could play at once.

Yamauchi saw ingenuity and resourcefulness in the work, and he hired Miyamoto to be the company’s first staff artist, even though the company had no specific need for one at the time. Miyamoto was assigned to be an apprentice in the planning department.

-Source: “Game Over”, David Sheff. Page 46.

And to this day, children still look to Nintendo for their video games. Over twenty years, no one has come close to selling to children. The HD consoles are all wrapped around ‘adult gaming’ which is about killing things and shooting things. The NES was a success not because it had the ‘best games’ at the time but because the NES nailed an audience that computer games were not hitting: children. And it does appear that with games like ‘Radarscope’ and even non-Miyamoto games such as ‘Metroid’, that it does appear that Miyamoto brought in the idea of love for making games that include children. To this day, many game developers spit on the idea of making games that include children. Poor children.

And the real reason why Miyamoto was so praised as a ‘Game God’ had nothing to do with the typical reasons of ‘vision’ and ‘art’. No. The reason why there is so much gushing praise for him is because Miyamoto defined their childhood. Grown up, the NES generation and SNES generation are pointing to games like Super Mario Brothers and Legend of Zelda and are saying, “That was my childhood.”

Despite how many awards are thrown at Miyamoto and despite how much money Nintendo investors gift him, there is no truly greater reward than to cause wonder and joy in the imagination of children.

 








Malstrom said:

 

Nintendo Summit: Will they drop the bomb?

It is amazing how fast the Wii HD and DS 2 pushers have disappeared. We were given the impression from “secret sources” that DS 2 would be shown or that Wii HD was going to be unveiled at this summit (because, obviously, Wii is sold out because Nintendo is clearing the channel for Wii HD).

So what will we see, realistically, at the Nintendo Summit? What we probably won’t see is Zelda Wii (that is saved for E3) or Metroid Other M (that is saved for GDC). So that means we will see lots of Super Mario Galaxy 2.

We will find out release plans for DS XL. They should also be announcing free online for Monster Hunter Tri as well as showcasing it. The new classic controller will be heavily showcased. Perhaps some localizations will be announced.

But a new console announcement at the summit? No.

However, no one knows what Nintendo will say. We never know when Nintendo might drop the bomb!


Above: Tactics tells Iwata to DROP THE BOB-OMB!!!!

 








LordTheNightKnight said:

 




A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LOL I like that Sign.

"I prefer to think that there are multiple geniuses at Nintendo, a constellation rather than just one, solitary, and singular star."

I agree with this. Their are many great people that work for Nintendo. With out them all Nintendo would not be what they were and are now.



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"I agree with this. Their are many great people that work for Nintendo. With out them all Nintendo would not be what they were and are now."

And it was even mention in Iwata asked that Mario isn't a Miyamoto thing but a three man thing. I can't remember the other names, but the described a Mario game as Miyamoto digging a hole, the second guy filling it in, and the third guy smoothing the dirt with a steamroller.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

The news from the summit so far is mostly what he claimed it would be. If this is the news from there, he should do a Stephen Colbert "I called it!" picture.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Well they announced 2 huge titles in the next 4 months alone, and theyre demoing Metroid, so he was wrong kinda.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

"Well they announced 2 huge titles in the next 4 months alone, and theyre demoing Metroid, so he was wrong kinda."

He just said no new system announcement, not no new game announcement. Although he was a bit off about Other M, but so far he's doing better than a Pachter prediction.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

The Summit: Last Hurrah of the old Nintendo Core

A puzzle has presented itself. Why has Nintendo jammed many of its ‘heavy hitter’ games like Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid: Other M and other games all within Quarter 2?

But you have the ever lovable, courageous, handsome, and awesome Malstrom to remove the puzzle. Do you have a guess reader? Make it, and I will answer the puzzle below.

Short Answer:

Reeling from the disaster that was User Generated Content, Nintendo has lost valuable time and its competitors are anxious to take advantage of Nintendo not pursuing motion control software with their own motion controls. Nintendo’s competitors are aiming at the ‘immersion’ or Core side of gaming with their motion controls (well, maybe not Natal, but no one knows WTF is going on with Natal). Sensing this hole, Nintendo is now furiously pushing Motion Plus and making Motion Plus software. The non-Motion Plus software (i.e. the old Core games) are being pushed out in the summer so Nintendo can focus on the new core. If Nintendo does not plug in the gaping hole of the lack of motion control games, Nintendo’s competitors have an opportunity to escape their shrinking Core Market box. Nintendo’s success in this endeavor will make or break their disruption.

Long Answer:

In the past few years, Nintendo changed the direction of the Wii to User Generated Content which has strangely not been covered by our incredible game journalists. Games were coming out of Nintendo were designed to include User Generated Content in some way. Wii Music would be the flagship title.

The reality is sales. Despite anyone’s opinion, even Miyamoto or Iwata’s opinions, sales have the final say. If something sells, it is right. If something doesn’t sell, something is wrong. Any business will change what they are doing if they discover their strategy is leading to a rapid decline in sales unless the business happens to be named Sony.

In 2008, Nintendo released the flagship titles Wii Music for the Expanded Audience and Animal Crossing: Wii for the Core Market. What both had in common was the embrace of User Generated Content (there were some other new Nintendo games coming out with User Generated Content like the Warioware game for the DS). The dramatic decline of Wii sales in 2009, after being sold out for most of 2008, could be placed in part of games like Wii Music and Animal Crossing: Wii being duds and not selling as Nintendo hoped.

As for E3 2008, well, you know it was bad when the president of the company makes a public apology for it.

At E3 2009, Nintendo noted the decline in Wii sales but thought nothing of it as they expected sales to rise again later in the year as more software was released. The software they showed there was somewhat a mixed bag. (Prior to E3, I write down a list of things Nintendo could do that would be right and things that would be wrong. One of them was ‘Super Mario Brothers 5 for Wii’ which would be considered E3 2009 becoming a ‘homerun’. So that game, alone, made E3 2009 a homerun. People doubted, but 2d Mario moves hardware and excites customers. Nintendo likes their customers getting excited.)

The mixed bag at E3 2009 was some more User Generated Content games (which we knew weren’t going to do anything for the system). But the oddest change was the uber core games shown off such as Metroid: Other M and Super Mario Galaxy 2. It seemed as if Nintendo had green lit these ‘core’ games to counter whatever went on at E3 2008.

(And there was the Vitality Sensor announcement which was odd because no software was shown. We can’t say anything about this until we see some software.)

Nintendo has proceeded with the strategy of making games for their Core Market and games for their Expanded Market. You can clearly tell which is which. The exception, perhaps, would be Mario Kart Wii which Iwata called a ‘bridge game’. (That ‘bridge game’ has insane sales.) Games like Mario Galaxy 2 or Other M were clearly for the Core Market.

But contrary to hardcore gamers’ claims on the message forums, Mario Galaxy 2 and Metroid: Other M are very weak games (weak in terms of pushing Wii momentum). It has been several years since the Wii launch. These ‘Core Games’ are not really Wii games but Super Gamecube games. The problem with Super Gamecube games is that they do not differentiate from the values of Nintendo’s competitors. The only difference between the Wii’s Core games and the games on the other consoles is that the Wii’s Core games are not HD.

This is why the Wii was so heavily criticized for not being HD in 2009 and why, to the gullible, a Wii HD looked “logical”.

These new core games are going to fall flat. Aside from the Gamecube audience, the Wii did not succeed based on Core games. The Gamecube audience is already well there on the Wii. With the exception of Pikmin 3, all the major Gamecube games are represented on the Wii from Super Smash Brothers Brawl (from Super Smash Brothers Melee) to Super Mario Galaxy (from Super Mario Sunshine) to Mario Kart Wii (from Mario Kart: Double Dash) to Metroid Prime 3 (from Metroid Prime 1 and 2) to even Animal Crossing Wii (from Animal Crossing on the Gamecube). 3d Mario and Metroid are already represented on the Wii. The Wii does not need another 3d Mario or another Metroid. To those who say, “But it sold pretty well,” imagine if Nintendo put out a sequel to Mario Kart: Wii. Would it sell? Somewhat. But people who want Mario Kart already have Mario Kart. Games on the scale of massive phenomenons like Wii Sports truly need a sequel. No one is going to buy a Wii for Mario Galaxy 2 or Metroid: Other M.

Worse, Nintendo’s competitors have revealed their ‘motion controls’ at E3 2009. This means that Nintendo’s competitors may be the ones who define motion controlled core (immersive) gaming. So far, Nintendo has done very little on the Wii with motion controls outside of Wii Sports and Wii Fit. If you do not like sports or fitness games, you are out of luck. Companies like Sony are increasingly becoming in a position to siphon off people who bought a Wii to have new game experiences with motion controls. The PS3 had a price cut and a revision and began upping its momentum in mid 2009.

Worse of all, the Wii audience would refuse to transition to a new Nintendo console no matter what doodad Nintendo put in the console. Many people bought the Wii expecting motion controlled games with Wii Sports being only the teaser of things to come. Nintendo has been acting like Wii Sports is the only motion control game they wanted to make. And with User Generated Content, the potential consumers saw in the Wii died causing Wii’s sales to flounder.

There has clearly been a shift in Nintendo’s strategy lately since E3 2009. They are heavily pushing Motion Plus where you can buy it in bundlees with regular Wii-motes. Iwata is even phoning developers such as Sandlot to tell them to put in Motion Plus. It is clear that Nintendo is going for a Motion Plus direction (and to keep their competitors into their shrinking Core Market box). I expect Motion Plus to take center stage at E3 2010.

So if this is Nintendo’s recent direction, what do they do with those traditional core games? Get them out ASAP. Get them out before the 2010 holiday season.

If Galaxy 2 and Other M were going to push momentum of the Wii, Nintendo would have positioned them more for the holidays. What I think we are seeing is Nintendo (finally) converting the Core Nintendo games to the new values of the Wii. Zelda Wii will be an example of this in part since it will use Motion Plus.

What we are witnessing is the last hurrah of the Nintendo Core. From now on, the Core games are going to draw on values of the New Generation. They will be using Motion Plus and whatever else. They will not resemble ‘Super Gamecube’ games.

Like someone throwing out stale food from a pantry to bring in new food, Nintendo is putting out all the ‘old Core’ games now. The ‘new Core’, the core games to utilize the values of the Wii, will likely take center stage at E3 2010 with Zelda Wii (and other Motion Plus games not yet revealed).



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)