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Forums - Nintendo - The Malstrom thread

Alby_da_Wolf said:

Wait, I don't know whether I understood correctly or not, didn't Malstrom actually play the complete version of M:OM before bashing and rejecting it?

Shit stinks, you can say this by just looking at it, no need to poke one's nose in it =)

Seriously speaking though I became more and more concerned every time a new bit of info about the game was revealed. I'm waiting for my copy of the game to be delivered shortly, but at this point I'm strongly biased against it. Should have canceled pre-order.



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mai said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Wait, I don't know whether I understood correctly or not, didn't Malstrom actually play the complete version of M:OM before bashing and rejecting it?

Shit stinks, you can say this by just looking at it, no need to poke one's nose in it =)

Seriously speaking though I became more and more concerned every time a new bit of info about the game was revealed. I'm waiting for my copy of the game to be delivered shortly, but at this point I'm strongly biased against it. Should have canceled pre-order.

What Malstrom wrote was almost a negative review, I expect reviewers to play the games they review just like I expect critics to watch the movies, plays, performances, shows they criticize.

Only then, and if they clearly explain their opinion, I can trust really their review, and it can also happen that something that's bad for them is actually good for me and vice versa, so a well done review is useful for me even when I don't agree with it.



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Alby_da_Wolf said:
mai said:

Shit stinks, you can say this by just looking at it, no need to poke one's nose in it =)

Seriously speaking though I became more and more concerned every time a new bit of info about the game was revealed. I'm waiting for my copy of the game to be delivered shortly, but at this point I'm strongly biased against it. Should have canceled pre-order.

What Malstrom wrote was almost a negative review, I expect reviewers to play the games they review just like I expect critics to watch the movies, plays, performances, shows they criticize.

Only then, and if they clearly explain their opinion, I can trust really their review, and it can also happen that something that's bad for them is actually good for me and vice versa, so a well done review is useful for me even when I don't agree with it.

I happen to agree with Malstrom about Other M - generally if not specifically about the thigns he dislikes - but the man is a massive troll and this is pretty standard for his MO.



From a recent interview:

We have just launched Other M in Japan and I’ve been checking user opinions on the Japanese bulletin boards. What you say is definitely true; many of them are saying that they prefer Super Metroid. So it gives me some mixed feelings to hear that.

The reason why people prefer Super Metroid over Other M and other Metroids is because of the mechanics. People LIKE exploring, they LIKE gaining new items, they LIKE the maze like world to adventure in. Sakamoto does not like these mechanics because they do not allow his movie director vision of character drama to be realized. The audience couldn’t give a rat’s rear end about Sakamoto’s visions of ‘character drama’.

It’s complicated simply because to me Super Metroid and Other M are both products that I was deeply involved with. So as far as I’m concerned, I don’t have to compare the two.

It’s all about him, folks! He doesn’t feel he needs to compare the two because he was involved with both. To Sakamoto, Metroid revolves entirely around him and not around any mechanics or gameplay principles.

It’s definitely true that Super Metroid was a good game but it is one of many good games in the series.

Who defines ‘good’? The audience or Sakamoto? To Sakamoto, only he can define what is a ‘good’ Metroid. This guy is really high up on himself.

Of course, there was the choice for me to work on a game more similar to Super Metroid but I don’t know if that would represent a true evolution of the series.

What I find hilarious about this is that Super Metroid is a remake of NES Metroid. And Zero Mission is also a remake of NES Metroid. If the series was ‘evolving’, what remake the same exact game?

It is because he wasn’t trying to remake the same game. He was trying to ret-con it so it would fit his ‘creative visions’. People wonder how I can be against Zero Mission. The answer is that I see no reason to re-make a game when a brand new Metroid adventure could have been made. Re-making a famous old game and ‘changing it up’ is essentially pissing on the fans who bought the original when it was released. If Miyamoto ‘remade’ Super Mario Brothers and Legend of Zelda, people would complain just the same.

And this is why I would never be allowed to be a game journalist. After Sakamoto saying he didn’t want to make a game like Super Metroid because he wanted to ‘evolve the series’, I would stop him right there and ask why did he remake Metroid I with Super Metroid and Zero Mission?

We know the answer. It is that Sakamoto cares only about the emotional reactions of Sakamoto. The audience can go to hell.

Sakamoto doesn’t have much in personal integrity either. Here is some hypocrisy on display:

Here is what Sakamoto said right before the release of Other M:

“I certainly do get asked that question a lot. During the Prime series, people always asked me when are you going to make a 2D Metroid. So we realized there was a lot of demand there, and that’s actually what drove the initial process to work on this project. I realize that there’s a lot of influence over a control scheme in the way that you feel about a game: When it’s in 2D, it feels more direct in terms of moving exactly where you want. There’s a certain dynamism with the screen in that regard, so the player has an exact understanding of their location and orientation of their movement. We wanted to bring both elements of the immersion of 3D and that kind of connection to your location on screen that you get from a 2D game.

When people say ’2d Metroid’, they ARE NOT REFERRING TO THE CONTROLLER! He isn’t even listening to the audience. He just hears what he wants them to say.

“So for all of these people saying that they really want a 2D Metroid, what I’d really like to say to them is I think this is your game. I’d like to see these people play it, and if they still want a purely 2D Metroid game after they’ve had this experience, then they should certainly let me know, then we’ll have to think about what to do next.

And from the current interview, he says:

We might be able to come up with a better Super Metroid but, some day sometime, we would work ourselves into a creative dead end if we were simply moving forward in one direction. I, myself, have been seeking new stimulations and new play feels with the games that I’ve been working on so at least I am trying to avoid repeating the same things.
I definitely consider the feedback of those players that prefer Super Metroid but the fact of the matter is that Other M has other features that must be exciting and appealing to the audience.

Prior to Other M’s release, he said that if people wanted another 2d Metroid, he would gladly do it. Now that Other M is out and people are rejecting his ‘creative visions’ and demand another 2d Metroid, he is telling you guys to go to hell.

I love how he says that Other M has ‘other features that must be exciting and appealing to the audience’. WE ARE THE AUDIENCE! We don’t think these new Other M features are ‘exciting’ or ‘appealing’. They are boring, miserable, and to some downright offensive.

When the audience disagrees with the Great And Amazing Sakamoto, Sakamoto pretends they are not part of the audience and creates an imaginary audience in his mind.

It’s only a few days since the game’s worldwide launch and at this point I’m anxious to learn the initial reaction from the public but, on the other hand, I’m always looking forward to reading the comments and feedback once those players have completed the game for the first time. Perhaps their opinion will have changed by then.

He is trying to dismiss any and all criticism by suggesting they haven’t finished the game. But people have finished the game and are still unhappy with it.

Have you ever seen a game developer so… dismissive towards the audience reaction? If Miyamoto was where Sakamoto is, Miyamoto would be horrified and very sorry people are not enjoying the game and look to correct it. But Sakamoto truly believes he is a MASTER ARTIST and you peasants do not tell the MASTER ARTIST what to do or what games to make! Oh no! The only role for you dirty peasant customers is to buy the Master Artist’s “masterpiece” and to praise it.

Let me make a suggestion to this ‘Master Artist’. If he doesn’t want to make a 2d Metroid, why not let another company do it like Retro? Retro can make a good 3d Metroid and will likely prove they can make a good 2d game in DKC 4. They would be perfect to make a 2d Metroid. But I am sure Sakamoto will not allow this! He’d rather no 2d Metroid ever be made even if he could continue on his bizarre Other M type ‘creative visions’.

Deep down, his status is very much in doubt. If someone could make a better 2d Metroid (which would not be hard) without Sakamoto, what claim to fame would Sakamoto have? He would be destroyed as ‘Game God’. So I bet he would be hostile to ANYONE making another 2d Metroid even if he was allowed to do whatever he wanted in a parallel Other M type Metroid series.

It is all about Sakamoto and his make-believe status as ‘Game God’. You, the filthy peasant audience, are only allowed to be ruled by his ‘creative whims’.

As a matter of fact I think I made some basic comment about that in one of the official guide books to Super Metroid all those years ago. Specifically what I said was, the way we made Super Metroid was to try not to use dialogue or text at all and that everything should be conveyed through gameplay. We intentionally avoided direct narrative. Rather than have Samus talk about herself we preferred the player to feel things through the game. This even extended to navigation as, rather than tell people where to go using text messages, we would design the stages so that people could sense where to go next.

So, between Metroid: Other M and Super Metroid we had clearly defined concepts and even if we’d had similar technologies back then we would not have made Super Metroid the way we made Other M.

I highly doubt Sakamoto had a choice in the matter. Back in 1994, Sakamoto was a small fry compared to, say, the producer of the game like Gunpei (who was to Nintendo’s toys as Miyamoto was to Nintendo’s video games). But all the people who worked on Metroid are either dead, retired, or just work in the engineering side of Nintendo. As producer of the game, nothing could have been done without Gunpei’s approval as he was the boss. And I imagine Gunpei and the other elder developers were following in a general direction that Yamauchi outlined for his developers. My point is that Sakamoto has MUCH more freedom to do what he wants today than he did. And this is the problem. He thinks he is a genius when he is not.

However, this totally destroys the Sakamoto Cultist talking point that “If Super Metroid was made today, it would have story and cutscenes because the technology wasn’t available then!” (and I point out NES Ninja Gaiden that did have cutscenes and story).
…………

Yes, it might be true that I thought in terms of the new audience, who might not be very good at games like Metroid. But the reason we emphasised storytelling this time around was that we wanted to have the psychological depictions of Samus Aran and have clear cut drama sequences in order to tell the entire story. We thought of that premise because in the drama sequence we have so much dialogue and narrative devices that if we somehow eliminate all such similar devices in the gameplay sections then it might become unbalanced as a whole. It became more natural for us to make written or spoken directives given to the audience now that we have so many drama scenes.
.
So, yes, I always want to attract more players to the Metroid franchise. Giving clear cut directions in terms of where they should go next, through dialogue and drama scenes, is something that we thought would help with that. But it was more about us wanting to include some in-game narrative outside of just the story scenes. Now, I have to admit that yes I wanted to cater to the needs of casual players. Metroid games have always been created so that players can sense where they should go next but that’s a skill of the veteran players and must be hard for newcomers.

.
Holy smokes! Metroid: Other M is a Birdman game! The more Sakamoto talks, the better this gets…

.
Specifically talking about the storytelling of Other M and the visual quality of the computer graphics, I think we have used quite luxurious resources to create these movie sequences and I think these scenes are worthy of the ‘movie’ label.

http://www.breastfeeding.com/forums/images/smilies/hahahahaha.gif&t=1" width="220" height="129">

However, if you ask me if I want Samus’s story to be told in cinemas, I really don’t think so. I want to tell the story of Samus only in the unique, interactive game format. However, if Mr Ryuji Kitaura, the director of the CG scenes in Other M, wants to make a Metroid movie and if the concept and methodologies he presents are agreeable with me then I might be okay with the idea. But only if it is made by him. Right now though, I have no intention to make a Metroid movie.

The real reason why Sakamoto does not wish to have a Metroid movie made is because movies are controlled by the movie director (which would not be Sakamoto). This is why writers prefer to work in television because they get more creative control where in movies the director has control.

The full paragraph reveals the desire of Sakamoto to be in FULL TOTAL CONTROL of Metroid. Sakamoto sees himself as the Tin Pot Metroid Pope!

This all presents a test for Iwata. Other M is not selling well. Reputation wise, it is heavily tarnishing the Metroid brand. The business response would be to remove control of Metroid away from Sakamoto.

Iwata’s big weakness is that he was a game developer so he sympathizes with them more often than he probably should. A game developer’s job is not to be ‘creative’, it is to make stuff that sells. Often, being ‘creative’ is what leads to sales. The entertainer works only at the pleasure of the audience.

Iwata revealed that if the DS and Wii were not successful, he probably wouldn’t remain as Nintendo president. But with so much decline occurring so rapidly, I imagine the decision makers could be re-evaluating the decision of Iwata as president. If Iwata keeps allowing Nintendo developers to do whatever they wish to do and keep making games like ‘Other M’ that scare away the audience and permanently harms the brand, I wonder how long Iwata will remain.

 

From the day it was announced at E3 last year, I had a bad feeling about other M… I’ll probably still rent it just to check it out, but something tells me I was right not to pre order on it.  Even if I do like it, I’m not going to deny that it has major problems…

Basically, the fact that’s it ridiculously linear (Moreso than Fusion and Zero Mission), only using your equipment when Adam tells you to, the concentration mechanic to recover health and missiles, unskippable cut-scenes (Big offender in my book)…

Anyway, here’s something I found…  It describes why the story is told so poorly in the game.  Big Spoilers ahead though…

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/960554-metroid-other-m/56305892

Some people will still defend the game despite the backlash. That can’t be helped, unfortunately such as this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfxCXXaMggs

I have nothing against him, but I don’t like some of the arguments he makes and I think they’ll easily be refuted…

They are easily refuted. How can he talk about bias against the Wii when these same reviewers gave Metroid Prime 3 a high score?

How can he talk about the D pad or computer keys on Prime Hunters and FPS games when there is a mouse (and touch screen)? How can he mention Super Mario 64 DS when the DS came with a ‘thumbpad’ strap to be specifically used for 3d movement in Super Mario 64? How can he mention Mario Kart DS use of D-pad movement when the game was designed around the mechanics of SNES Super Mario Kart (which the DS button scheme matches the SNES scheme perfectly)?

He mischaracterizes Abbie’s now famous review of Other M (as Sakamoto cultists often do). Sakamoto has revealed that he wants Other M to sell to the ‘new audience’ on Wii. That means women. A female reviewer saying the content of the game offended her is particularly stinging to the company, far more than many gamers will realize. If a similar criticism came over the Zelda character in a Zelda game, Nintendo would quickly react because so many females buy Zelda (currently, none of them buy Metroid).

Hahaha, he actually says “You guys need to read the manga!” This is giving a real life video to these Sakamoto cultists hahaha.

Citing the Prime games doesn’t mean anything as Sakamoto had full control of all Samus character behavior. Retro wanted to take Samus in a different direction but Sakamoto vetoed it.

I was kicking myself for watching this video, but the conspiracy theory at the end made it worth it. Hilariously, he says that Other M received bad reviews because there is a reviewer conspiracy to make sure it doesn’t get game of the year!

By his young age, you can tell we were playing Metroid before he was even born. And if you are going to broadcast yourself on the Internet, at least have the intelligence to put on a shirt. Nasty armpit hair. I feel like the wheels of civilization are spinning in reverse.

And then there’s people trying to use the manga as proof that this was what Samus is supposed to be.  I also found why the manga doesn’t really matter:

Base line: No one has ever read the manga

1. The manga was released in a country that counts 6% of the total potential Metroid fanbase
——- A. Japan counts 270 000 potential fans, out of the 4.38 million potential Fusion – Prime fans all around the world
——- B. The manga was created to incite interest from the Japanese. It was not meant for any other country
2. 94% of the potential fanbase had no access to the manga.
  3. No figures on manga sales figures in Japan, for all we know it never took off.
5. The manga had a fan-translation to a language it was never meant for.
  ——- A. What is said in english was never the intention of the original writers. Hence the entire text should be taken with a
grain of salt.
6. If the manga had 10 000 readers outside of Japan, which sounds ridiculously much for a fan-translated web-comic, it would mean it was read by about 0,25% of the total potential Metroid fanbase. Or 0.35% of the potential Prime fanbase. Or 0.7% of the total potential Fusion fanbase.

In other words: There is an extremely low probability that more than 5% of Metroid Prime buyers read the manga. 5% equals about 14 000 readers, which is, btw, an extremely high figure for a japanese only, fan translated web-comic that was never even for sale outside of Japan.

As noted by Timstuff: The actual number is most likely not bigger than 4 digits. Even the Zelda mangas probably have a bigger readership in the US than the Metroid one because they had official US translations, but I don’t see anyone claiming that they are canon to the Zelda series despite having a lot of accurate plot details.

Why am I using “Potential fanbase”? Combined sales of both Fusion and Prime, otherwise people will yell the numbers are biased towards one group or the other.

Flame wars are breaking out all over the place on this one game…it’s actually sad…

There is no ‘argument’. Sales are already showing the market is not interested in this game. The vocal defense of this game is the shrill dying gasp of the Sakamoto cultists.

Prior to Other M’s release, I was constantly pestered by these cultists emailing me. They would say, “Keep talking smack about Other M! You will see when Other M outsells all Metroids and becomes the successor to Super Metroid!” hahahaha.

This is what the Sakamoto cultist actually thought would happen:

Other M would get perfect reviews everywhere.

Wii would sell out. Everyone would rush to buy Other M. Other M would outsellf every other Metroid game. Sakamoto would be smugly vindicated. Malstrom would mocked for how he doesn’t know Metroid. The Metroid Prime games would be forgotten and everyone would say, “We love Other M! Go away Prime games!”

Instead, the opposite occurred! Reviewers are saying, “We miss Metroid Prime…” and the audience is rejecting the ‘story’ and ‘genius’ of Sakamoto. Even Sakamoto seems rattled by it. By his comments of saying Other M would be the successor to Super Metroid prior to Other M’s release, Sakamoto’s belief in the game appeared to match the cultists.

The problem with these cultists is that they are acting as enablers for Sakamoto to continue to destroy Metroid. Sakamoto will listen to the ‘audience’ of which will only be the cultists and everyone else he will dismiss. And Metroid will continue to decline. I think this is a microcosm of gaming’s decline in general. Game developers are listening only to their ‘cultists’ and not to the broader audience.

Now the cultists are lashing out at the audience and reviewers. Perhaps everything the cultist believes in Metroid is all wrong? But they are too invested with their manga, their forum posts, their website shrines to ever reconsider.

 

http://www.aussie-nintendo.com/news/23515/
The winning entry really nails it.

Don’t give Sakamoto any more ideas to fuel his ‘creativity’! I don’t think Metroid can survive Sakamoto’s ‘creativity’ as it is.



That interview with Sakamoto is kind of damning, if Malstrom is presenting it in an honest fashion (which I have reservations about assuming)

Another thought: kind of hard to peg Malstrom's actual opinions from time to time. I know he has a serious cult following partially because he trolls so hard, but earnestness goes a long way for clarity



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Malstrom's overestimating the decline of the franchise, i think. So long as Other M clears a million, it'll be "fine" for a Metroid title, and Nintendo won't make a backlash against Sakamoto

 

I believe he may have forgotten that the Business Side of Nintendo was on board with Other M, as far as we know. It wasn't just them letting Sakamoto run buck wild, they thought these were elements that could help make the franchise more mainstream (cinematic action game elements) and help revive the series in Japan, where Prime only diminished the series' grip. 

The business side was behind this in part. They were searching for a breakout title for the franchise, and have instead found just another entry.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:

Malstrom's overestimating the decline of the franchise, i think. So long as Other M clears a million, it'll be "fine" for a Metroid title, and Nintendo won't make a backlash against Sakamoto

 

I believe he may have forgotten that the Business Side of Nintendo was on board with Other M, as far as we know. It wasn't just them letting Sakamoto run buck wild, they thought these were elements that could help make the franchise more mainstream (cinematic action game elements) and help revive the series in Japan, where Prime only diminished the series' grip. 

The business side was behind this in part. They were searching for a breakout title for the franchise, and have instead found just another entry.

Let's not mince words, here. How many mainline Metroid titles have failed to sell a million? You don't think there will be some backlash if this game doesn't manage to outsell Echoes?



Khuutra said:
Mr Khan said:

Malstrom's overestimating the decline of the franchise, i think. So long as Other M clears a million, it'll be "fine" for a Metroid title, and Nintendo won't make a backlash against Sakamoto

 

I believe he may have forgotten that the Business Side of Nintendo was on board with Other M, as far as we know. It wasn't just them letting Sakamoto run buck wild, they thought these were elements that could help make the franchise more mainstream (cinematic action game elements) and help revive the series in Japan, where Prime only diminished the series' grip. 

The business side was behind this in part. They were searching for a breakout title for the franchise, and have instead found just another entry.

Let's not mince words, here. How many mainline Metroid titles have failed to sell a million? You don't think there will be some backlash if this game doesn't manage to outsell Echoes?

Internally? We can't know

Hell, i'd bet there was some backlash about Zero Mission in its time (as that one didn't crack a million period), though GBA games didn't have to sell as much to profit

I mean, i remember Reggie once saying that Nintendo expected this to double Corruption. Expectations were high, but i'm saying what Malstrom is branding as the fault of Sakamoto's eccentricity in spite of the bean-counters may very well have been not only sanctioned, but encouraged by them.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:

Malstrom's overestimating the decline of the franchise, i think. So long as Other M clears a million, it'll be "fine" for a Metroid title, and Nintendo won't make a backlash against Sakamoto

Evidence points the other way. I could find a heap of stuff where people just hate Other M. Miost of it is on Malstrom's blog.

I'll post it here some other time.



Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:

Malstrom's overestimating the decline of the franchise, i think. So long as Other M clears a million, it'll be "fine" for a Metroid title, and Nintendo won't make a backlash against Sakamoto

Evidence points the other way. I could find a heap of stuff where people just hate Other M. Miost of it is on Malstrom's blog.

I'll post it here some other time.

I'm talking about sales almost exclusively here. The whims of public opinion will matter little.

 

And under Malstrom's logic, it would be relatively easy to win back any gamers that Other M pushed away with a more traditional Metroid title, though Other M will likely only fall a few hundred thousand short of the definitive traditional Metroid title (Super), if not match it

It's a franchise whose sales have been essentially flat for the last twenty years, except for Prime, and if it took the best game of all time to push sales up for this franchise, sales expectations are generally going to stay grounded.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.