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Forums - Nintendo - The Malstrom thread

Goody. Now that he's off the Other M hate-train (sort of, anyway), he's making sense again.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Tease.

Rhonin the wizard said:

 


 


 

Fahey sees Apple advertising the iPod Touch to be a gaming device is a display of Apple’s recent gaming strength. I see it as the opposite.

Some analysts have compared Apple’s entry into handheld gaming to Microsoft’s entry into the console market – yet the comparison with Microsoft’s multi-billion dollar landgrab actually underestimates the threat posed by Apple’s devices to Nintendo and Sony, if anything.

I’d like to know who these analysts are because that is a really dumb comparison. Apple is not buying any company like ‘Bungie’. Apple is not making a gaming centric device (i.e. with tactile interface like buttons). Apple is not adopting the business structure of dedicated gaming consoles where homebrew is not acceptable. Apple has always struggled to get traditional gamers as consumers. Nothing has changed in this regard. The best thing for Apple and gaming was being able to install Windows on your Mac.

We are in the Era of Disruption. There is not going to be any tit for tat console war between any company. There are more things going on below the surface.

Remember when Jobs bragged how a game for the iPhone or iPod Touch was considerably cheaper than a DS game? Attacking from the bottom end, not the top end, is disruptive. Nintendo responded by allowing cheap games to be bought on the DSi.

Apple’s threat is not a competitive one but a disruptive one. Apple has disrupted Intel for example. The iPad does not use any chips made by Intel. The chips are all made by Apple. Intel is on Christensen’s recent list of ‘disrupted companies’.

Iwata is not losing any sleep from Jobs’ statements. I’ll tell you what would make Iwata lose sleep. It would be the release of a television, made by Apple, that can play movies, music, games with the TV being 3d. Apple is in a position to pull that off. While Nintendo is putting out a 3d visual output handheld, Apple could beat Nintendo to the home version of 3d gaming. This is why, secretive Nintendo, was very un-secretive about wanting the successor to the Wii to be 3d output gaming for home. Nintendo cannot make a 3d TV. And it is going to be a while before 3d TVs have a nice install base. Apple will likely get there first.

To find the next big change in gaming, one should look at potential disruptors, not potential competitors.

Funny how Malstrom dismisses Apples rise to be the fourth big gaming power in the industry.

iOS style devices already have disruptive potential. They cater to the low end of the gaming demographic, they have a unique distribution model which Nintendo cannot compete with given the differing nature of their respective businesses and they are becoming more important. Last year the iOS gaming revenue exceeded the PSP gaming revenue and that growth YOY is likely to be significant enough to make Apple the clear number two handheld gaming company. The 3DS in many ways can also be seen as a retreat up market against the rise of the iOS devices because it caters more towards the core of the handheld userbase.



Tease.

"Funny how Malstrom dismisses Apples rise to be the fourth big gaming power in the industry.

iOS style devices already have disruptive potential. They cater to the low end of the gaming demographic, they have a unique distribution model which Nintendo cannot compete with given the differing nature of their respective businesses and they are becoming more important. Last year the iOS gaming revenue exceeded the PSP gaming revenue and that growth YOY is likely to be significant enough to make Apple the clear number two handheld gaming company. The 3DS in many ways can also be seen as a retreat up market against the rise of the iOS devices because it caters more towards the core of the handheld userbase."

He did not claim they couldn't get into gaming at all, just that not being dedicated gaming devices means they won't be the competition everyone thinks they will be.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:

He did not claim they couldn't get into gaming at all, just that not being dedicated gaming devices means they won't be the competition everyone thinks they will be.


Cable TV isn't a dedicated sports medium and yet they are the dominant medium for delivering that kind of content. Facebook isn't a dedicated gaming platform at yet it sports the game with a userbase exceeding the Wii. So with iOS devices not being dedicated gaming devices doesn't mean they will also never become an important handheld gaming marketplace.



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Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

He did not claim they couldn't get into gaming at all, just that not being dedicated gaming devices means they won't be the competition everyone thinks they will be.


Cable TV isn't a dedicated sports medium and yet they are the dominant medium for delivering that kind of content. Facebook isn't a dedicated gaming platform at yet it sports the game with a userbase exceeding the Wii. So with iOS devices not being dedicated gaming devices doesn't mean they will also never become an important handheld gaming marketplace.


Important is still not the same as dominant. Plus your TV and sports things doesn't take into account that the competition wasn't a nearly equal medium that was around longer. Movies were not, since they couldn't show them live. Radio couldn't show the picture. And going for real isn't always practical.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

The question is if they steal business away, which is very likely to be the case, but the way Apple disrupts and the way Nintendo does are at odds. Apple is simply undercutting business, and it would be extremely difficult for them to move upmarket (though GameCenter is an attempt at that), but in Apple's case its a zero-gain philosophy. It doesn't matter to them if someone who has their product "upgrades" to a DS, 3DS, or PSP. They still have their iOS device, but Nintendo is now in the position of having to do the hard work to get them to upgrade, and in that sense will be fighting the same hard fight that Sony is currently in with Move: trying to convince users that what they have isn't enough.

 

Apple is fighting no conflict with Nintendo because they have relatively little to gain by preventing their users from buying Nintendo handhelds. The most would be the lost opportunity cost of further iStore games that users might have bought if they hadn't bought a DS, but that's all very speculative



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

He did not claim they couldn't get into gaming at all, just that not being dedicated gaming devices means they won't be the competition everyone thinks they will be.


Cable TV isn't a dedicated sports medium and yet they are the dominant medium for delivering that kind of content. Facebook isn't a dedicated gaming platform at yet it sports the game with a userbase exceeding the Wii. So with iOS devices not being dedicated gaming devices doesn't mean they will also never become an important handheld gaming marketplace.


Important is still not the same as dominant. Plus your TV and sports things doesn't take into account that the competition wasn't a nearly equal medium that was around longer. Movies were not, since they couldn't show them live. Radio couldn't show the picture. And going for real isn't always practical.

A competitor doesn't need to have >50% market share in order to threaten an incumbant. The smart phone is becoming one of the most significant growth area of the market and seems to be fostering a massive change in computing. The fact that Apple had more revenue in gaming than Sony on a diet of $.99 - 1.99 games is pretty staggering in the handheld space.



Tease.

Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Squilliam said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

He did not claim they couldn't get into gaming at all, just that not being dedicated gaming devices means they won't be the competition everyone thinks they will be.


Cable TV isn't a dedicated sports medium and yet they are the dominant medium for delivering that kind of content. Facebook isn't a dedicated gaming platform at yet it sports the game with a userbase exceeding the Wii. So with iOS devices not being dedicated gaming devices doesn't mean they will also never become an important handheld gaming marketplace.


Important is still not the same as dominant. Plus your TV and sports things doesn't take into account that the competition wasn't a nearly equal medium that was around longer. Movies were not, since they couldn't show them live. Radio couldn't show the picture. And going for real isn't always practical.

A competitor doesn't need to have >50% market share in order to threaten an incumbant.(1) The smart phone is becoming one of the most significant growth area of the market and seems to be fostering a massive change in computing. The fact that Apple had more revenue in gaming than Sony on a diet of $.99 - 1.99 games is pretty staggering in the handheld space. (2)


1. I didn't claim that had anything to do with this.

2. Okay, disruption is not just a move from one side. It's also leaving room for the other to disrupt. If you don't leave room, you can stop the disruption. Malstrom mentioned that Microsoft used smart tactics with laptops to prevent netbooks from disrupting them. So Sony left room for disruption with all the PSP mistakes (and PS3, assuming you mean Apple made more money than Sony's gaming division). Nintendo is moving foreward with their next handheld, but more importantly, they are focusing on games that will sell this handheld.

Apple's devices are widespread, so by virtue of volume, their revenue is a lot. But they will need some major killer apps to truly make a great handheld gaming device. That could happen, but because Nintendo has their killer apps once again (or always had them with their handhelds), disrupting them is unlikely. Apple at best would make their own handheld market. They don't need to disrupt Nintendo. This is actually what Malstrom's latest post is about. Competition in gaming need not be Zero Sum. You can make your own market without taking on the competion directly.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

 Nintendo only has to fear Apple when Apple can put out games that challenge Nintendo software, right now, its not even close, and there is no sign that it will ever be close