Isn't that abit harsh? i mean... imo its wrong, but to each his ... or her own, then again if it is a Rule then she should have followed it, no questions asked.

Isn't that abit harsh? i mean... imo its wrong, but to each his ... or her own, then again if it is a Rule then she should have followed it, no questions asked.

coolbeans said:
I guess respect wouldn't be the best word for that part and I agree with your final sentence. Although, how can you argue that the 10 Commandments are only narrowed down to the church? While yes The Bible does have it in there but Moses (believed to be the writer of the first 5 books of the Bible where the 10 Commandments is first written) was believed to have written these books to pass on to Jewish law and they're the oldest set of found written rules (or second oldest not sure about the Hammurabi Code) that are found to be one of the bases of criminal law today. Wouldn't it be fair to say then the 10 Commandments in a court room can still be found to be a seperation of church and state? Sorry to be late but I felt like asking questions :P. |
Well, "I am the Lord your God, You shall have no other gods before me, you shall not make for yourself an idol" or "You shall not make wrongfull use of the name of your God" or "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy" do seem pretty religious to me :P
They might not be exclusive to a single "church" (the Jews group them a bit different as far as I know, but I don't think it's much of a concern) but to a subset of religions, whiele there are still many beliefs (even if most less popular) that don't follow them.
And really, base of criminal laws? They're just too bare-bones, and they don't even resemble a code like Hamurabi's did or anything. Why not have Hamurabi's one there? Also, O don't think it would be such a problem if they used only commandments 4 to 9*. Some people would still complain about the surce and all, but still.
The thing with Church-State separation is not exclusive to church, it means the separation of state and religion. A good subset of american people does not believe on any religion of the subset that holds the commandments as true or sacred, I'd expect some of them to be unconfortable with it.
*But not 10. I mean, come on, disobeying the 10th Commandment is pretty much what moves the economy :P
wonder what would happen if you put, "asexual from way back."
Can they still discriminate?
GETTIN' CHRONOCRUNK
| coolbeans said: Well yes of course laws referring to God in there but it still doesn't drive the point that there's a historical reference to where some of our laws had started from in terms of written text. Whether they're "bare-bones" are not shouldn't be a concern because these were still the bases of laws that Jews mandated and was sacred to them. Even when you change the word from church to religion that doesn't cover all of the bases of what the 10 Commandments were heralded for. Whether that person doesn't follow a subset of religions or does, you can't make a determination that the 10 Commandments in a courtroom is in violation of the seperation of church and state. |
Ok, but if it's the historical reference that's important, why the ten commandments, or why only them? The historical side may be important but still, I find it hard to believe it's not largely influenced by religion. Maybe it's kind of like swearing on the bibble.
My point about them being "bare-bones" was that there are a few other codes or laws that have influenced "our" (I'm not american, but still, our laws kind of come from the same source, basically) laws more, or more directly, than the 10 commandments.
I mean, I'm obviously not offended by them being there (not even american after all) but I can see how some people could think it's out of place. They may even be wrong, or maybe (I don't know) some of them may make it into something much bigger than it is, but the point I was making was that they have reasons to believe they shouldn't be there, and they complain because of this, but not because they hate on or are unconfortable with the Commandments themselfs or the people that believe in those commandments, so it's different.
coolbeans said:
Yes true you did bring that point well in terms of homophobes but if we're connecting this between that of this article and our topic branching off of this, while apperantly not a major statistic in comparison to people complaining about the 10 Commandments, couldn't someone find that same offense with the word lesbian on an XBL profile? Bear in mind it's basically me trying to make a rhetorical/ending question for this topic and since you didn't intend to dive into that I'm not holding it against you to not reply since your intent was different for coming on this thread. Granted homophobe in comparison to someone finding the 10 Commandments isn't the best comparisons to be basing this on, I only worded it like that because it was mentioned in another dicussion. In terms of why the 10 Commandments or the Bible and holding your right hand to swear before questions, Christianity (or some other type of religion close to Christianity but had differences) ran deep with the majority of colonies back then (while the Founding Fathers had quite a few differences believe it or not) so it also has a history in America as well. |
About the Founding Fathers, as far as I know (and I don't know that far, so yeah :P), they intended to separete religion and state, didn't they. Now, yeah, I get your point, there are historical reasons to have the commandments there.
I'd argue it's still kind of promoting or "officializing" a religion, which people with different beliefs (be it atheists or even other religious people) really use to dislike.
Then again, let's say it's exactly the same thing: Some people are offended by that, so some people are bound to be offended by the word "lesbian". Well, does Live ban any mention to religion? And, if some people are offended by such little things, I'm sure some are offended by war, too. Or by other simple word's like "Hell" or "genocide". You can go really far and make a big list of things that at least (or even more, in my opinion) plausible to offend people as "lesbian". Should every one of them be banned?


I don't understand what the deal is... In a sense, it's not a dating service, so, there's no reason to put down your sexual orientation. However, if someone does, who cares. As long as they're not hitting on other members, it shouldn't be a problem. So, if someone puts in their profile "I'm straight" I guess they should be banned too... But, you see how much sense that makes? Homosexuals think that just because they like the same gender, they're special (not all). But, it's a sexual orientation... it shouldn't matter anymore than someone saying "I like 52 inch HDTVs" You never hear straight people talking about how "proud" they are to be straight. I mean, unless someone asks, it never comes up...
But, still, microsoft is wrong for that, and they're still wrong for adding something like that in a user agreement.
Rainbird said:
Sorry, but that is a bad argument. Why should your opinion limit the freedom of speech for others? It shouldn't. I'm sure there are people out there who are disgusted by reading that some person they met on XBL are black, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to write what color your skin is. |
Your argument if flawed too. Why should her perversion trump Microsoft's right to moderate whats on their network?
| coolbeans said: atm I'm can't remember how the XBL Terms of Use on that subject is (I'll check out though might be on one of these pages even) but I wouldn't doubt if someone found anything from True Devil666, Christianistheway, Lesbianfromwayback, to Heterosexual and so on for being either their XBL name to finding that in their profile could be deemed worthy of a ban or suspension if that language was found to be offensive and/or infringes the Terms of Use agreement. I would advise anyone to not test this out though which I saw someone else mention on here |
But what if your bio reads even something tame like "I'm a 23 years old Muslim trying to change this world", or anything like that, the possibilities are literally endless, and I'm sure some people would be offended.
There are thousands of topics that could be alluded to, there are millions of points of view that will be in conflict with others. Let's say you have anything about politics in there, that's sure to offend some people.
Some people are offended too easily, but it's normal for you to not like many things. Point is, you can't try to change every enviroment because of that, it would be pointless to change Live. If an adult (remember, we're talking adults since for kids their parents can use parental control) can't stand a different, reasonable, point of view that won't even interfere with his own life, how can he live in a society? Shielding him from something so "weak" seems pointless to me.
coolbeans said:
I'm not exactly sure how to comment other then just saying there's people like that out there who get offended too easily. Hope you read my edit as well on last post |
Just read your edit.
You know, something funny about God given rights is that every other country has these rights, and they do use to have a similar "core", since our modern law has the same root, but they all have their differences too, and sometimes big differences, so you have lots of different sets of God given rights across the world.
What really matters about a set of rights is how respected they are. Now, I see some people would tend to naturally respect "God given things", but I'm not sure that the people who really should respect these will, like you pointed out.
Also, does the constituion itself actually say those rights are given by God?