I to have noticed the Goal Post is moving, it doesnt even feel like 500k-1mill sold means to much anymore, i as gonna make a thread stating that 3millis the new 1mil

On rails arent bad, its just being abused in a way. Because they dont want to make it into full flegde game they had to make it into a short arcade style shooter that doesnt fit the game. Plus these developers dont even market their games, how are you going to make your product a success if its not getting any form of advertiseing (dead space extraction) At least Sega tried with the Conduit, Overkill and Madworld, so kudos for them. They confirmed that they're still exploring with more possible M rated titles.

The problem, as I see it, is the Wii's audience is too divergent. Nintendo is really the only publisher who really understands 'Games for Everyone' because that's what Nintendo has always made since day 1.

Everyone else caters to niche (and there are lots of niche Wii titles) or the enthusiast crowd. There are some enthusiasts with Wii, lots in fact, but most of them also have a PS360. And vertually everyone with a PS360 is an enthusiast. So if that's you're bread and butter, your core compentacy that's where you're going to put your games.

To their credit EA and Ubisoft have been making some strides to start making 'Games for Everyone' from Shaun White to Grand Slam Tennis, to Boom Blox. Activision has also delivered with rock solid Guitar Heros and CoD (even though they are 2 years late....) They've had success but not Nintendo type success. Of course Nintendo has the power of massive brands like Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Donkey Kong, etc. with 20+ years of history and global regconition.

In a nutshell, you're simply never going to see a Assasin's Creed or Left 4 Dead on Wii because there's simply not enough dedicated (single system) enthusiast gamers on Wii to support those types of games. You may very likely see the next Prince of Persia on Wii though since the movie will give it the same broad regconition Resident Evil currently enjoys.

Wii is what it is and what Nintendo set out to make it. A system for everyone, not just game enthusiasts. Therefore you either need to redefine what you consider a top notch effort to be (Rock Band, Tiger Woods, Dead Space:Extraction, etc. are all excellent Wii games with real budgets and effort behind them) or realize 3rd party can't compete directly because no one, not even Sega, has developed and maintained brands like Nintendo has over the last 30 years that appeal to 'everyone'. Their's a few recent breakouts with mass apeal - Guitar Hero and Call of Duty (and Halo but that's exclusive MS) and those are already on Wii.

Well, Silent Hill is coming, and it looks very polished and it's not niche, is it? We'll see how well it performs (already preordered =) )

I agree with you but I also think there's been a lot of talk about this casual vs hardcore that people don't even know what they mean anymore.

I don't care really, all I want are good games that make good use of Wii's capabilities. I have games like Metroid Trilogy to games like Order Up or Mercury Meltdown, and I think all of them are great. I want more of this kind of games.

The problem is people say "casual" games are crappy, even if they haven't played them, and that's not always true. And then say "hardcore" games are really good when in reality they're not or have many flaws (Madworld).

So now Muramasa, Madworld, Little King are niche and that's why they didn't sold so well? Then what's not niche? FPS? Well, there's the Conduit, or Modern Warfare too.
I don't think they didn't sold too much because they're niche, more likely because they are new IP or word of mouth was not extremely positive at all. Had Madworld or The Conduit been better games, they would had sold better I'm sure of it.

Not true for a people that buy the console, what else would explain the perfectly decent attach rate? not only that but most people on here that own a Wii bought it for the variety of games and control methods.

I also think Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort are good games. This is part of the reason why they have all sold a lot of copies.

Red

I think theres another way.

Nintendo can CREATE a new game genre with a single wii release, make the wii home for this new genre and let third parties roll out on clones and variations.

Yet, Nintendo ALREADY DID THAT with Wii Sports.

Unfortunally, with Wii Sports nintendo created the "Cheap sports game controlled with waggle" genre.

And that´s a type of game that can only turn out to be great if you have amazing talented people as developers (like Nintendo had). Otherwise, it will be crap.

What Nintendo COULD DO is to make the wii home for the action adventure exergame.

Think about Reginleiv, the new nintendo game that´s coming in feb/2010.

Its an action adventure game wtih motion plus support. And its about swords.

IF the game features 1-on-1 motion controls and turns out to be a good game, we will have the perfect bridge between casual and hardcore games.

Why?

Because regular gamers will play it because its a hardcore game, with blood, swords, online co-op, leveling, and all the things we like.

While the casual crowd will play it because of the acessibility of motion controls and how cool they look. You can make a combo by swinging your wiimote like a sword, like the heroes do in the movies, the same way you did when you were a child (and it was deadly fun). While you do that, you´ll be sweting BUCKETS. Casual crowd will dig it like its the new cocaine.

IF the game sucsseds, 3rd parties could create games inside this new genre, making it perfect and selling more.

But who am i kidding? 3rd parties wont do that! Zelda is always a hit and yet 3rd parties just dont make a similar game for the wii. Mario galaxy is a hit and its the only of its kind on the wii. Wii sports resort is a damn hit and its the only wii game that uses motion plus and feature 1-on-1 controls.

There´s two explanations for that. Either 3rd parties are just plain dumb, or there´s more stuff going on underneath that we´ll never know about.

Not true for a people that buy the console, what else would explain the perfectly decent attach rate? not only that but most people on here that own a Wii bought it for the variety of games and control methods.

I also think Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort are good games. This is part of the reason why they have all sold a lot of copies.

Red Steel 2 will be the one game that looks like it has good budget, good planning and a chance of being a big blockbuster game that nerdy core people will get behind.

I think the main thing is many 3rd parties are just afraid to compete with Nintendo's games. But tough crap! You have to take those risks. If a company is making better games that sell better, as a business, you have to take a step back and examine WHY this is happening, and make an effort to improve it. As of now, I really don't see that effort.

The good news is 3rd party games are finally looking better starting next year with Red Steel 2, Epic Mickey, Tales of Graces, Monster Hunter 3, The Grinder, No More Heroes 2, Fragile, DQX, etc. But there is still much improvement to be made. There is no reason, in my mind, why Wii should not receive the type of third party support PS2 had.

If all else fails, I think Nintendo needs to pull a MS and either work very closely with some 2nd/ 3rd parties, or try to buy some.

I can see your point.

Specially when you say that "theres a lot of nonsense doing the rounds"

You know what really gets me mad about this nonsense doing the rounds?

Its the fact that the primary reason for the so called "3rd party games dont sell on the wii" talk is simple that 3rd party dont put any money on the wii.

They dont release big games on the system. They dont advertise it properly. They just push out of their huge corporate vaginas an abortion made by a 5 people team, pray it sells 1mil and complain when it dont.

Everybody knows that!!!!

Yet, THE GAMING PRESS JUST DONT TALK ABOUT IT!

They go "Oh, another hardcore game not selling on the wii! Tsk tsk tsk, we told ya!!"

When in reality, there´s no way you sell 5 mil of a big hardcore Wii game if THERE ISNT ANY BIG HARDCORE WII GAME MADE BY 3rd PARTIES

Game Party - 2.11 Million

Game Party 2 - 1.08 Million

Mario and Sonic - 7.27 Million

Mario Party 8 - 6.77 Million

Carnival Games - 3.51 Million

Rayman Raving Rabbids: TV Party - 1.56 Million

Rayman Raving Rabbids - 1.66 Million

Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 - 1.66 Million

Guitar Hero 3 - 4.32 Million

Deca Sports - 2 Million

The Conduit - 300,000

MadWorld - 340,000

Little Kings Story - 130,000

Muramasa - 160,00

Dead Space Extraction - 90,000

No More Heroes - 470,000

Fragile - 60,000

Okami - 280,000

Tales of Symphonia: DotNW - 400,000

de Blob - 740,000

Phantom Brave - 60,000

Valhalla Knights - 50,000

Rune Factory Frontier - 110,000

Zack and Wiki - 370,000

Monster Hunter Tri - 950,000

Boom Blox - 990,000

Resident Evil 4 - 1.64 Million

Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles - 1.34 Million

The House of the Dead: 2 and 3 - 1.11 Million

Red Steel - 1.19 Million

Party Games and Rail Shooters sell well. Thats why there are so many on the system. Many quality third party games don't sell well, thats why they are few and far between. When they do sell, they get sequels. See Red Steel 2 and Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles.